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What's a Real Buddhist?

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Lets just say I know this person who claims to be a Buddhist. I have my personal doubts as to his legitimacy, as I know him quite well, and although I don't know that much about Buddhism, something seems amiss. I do know my Hinduism. For example, although married, he dons his homemade robes and makes like a monk. I could never do that in Hinduism.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend Vinayaka,

For your info.
Relationships

Monks and nuns lead lives of total celibacy in which any kind of sexual behaviour is forbidden. This includes even suggestive speech or physical contact with lustful intent, both of which are very serious offences for monks and nuns. As one's intent may not always be obvious (even to oneself), and one's words not always guarded, it is a general principle for monks and nuns to refrain from any physical contact with members of the opposite sex.
from the following link: The Buddhist World: Lay Buddhist's Guide to the Monk's Rules

Love & rgds
 

Tathagata

Freethinker
What does he do that makes you question his legitimacy? What are his core beliefs?

A Buddhist must accept the Triple Gem: The Buddha, the Dharma, and the Sangha.

I believe the Sangha can be taken loosely as the Buddha openly accepted lay disciples, ones who are not part of an official Sangha. I believe you can be a lone man Sangha. I think it merely implies that you must practice it and spread it.



.
 

DreadFish

Cosmic Vagabond
Unless he is claiming to be a monk, then I dont suppose there is anything inherently wrong with wearing robes and living like a monk for the sake of strengthening ones practice. Though, from a certain point of view, I suppose the wearing of the robes could reflect a claim. Since I do not know him, I could not make a call as to how legitimate his practice is.
 

Engyo

Prince of Dorkness!
Lets just say I know this person who claims to be a Buddhist. I have my personal doubts as to his legitimacy, as I know him quite well, and although I don't know that much about Buddhism, something seems amiss. I do know my Hinduism. For example, although married, he dons his homemade robes and makes like a monk. I could never do that in Hinduism.
Hello, Vinayka -

As others have said, this varies quite a bit between different Buddhist traditions and schools.

My wife is an ordained Buddhist minister in the Nichiren Shu tradition. Japanese Mahayana schools do not follow large portions of the Vinaya code, due to political meddling by the Emperor during the Meiji restoration (same timeframe as the Last Samurai movie).

With regards to your friend, a great deal depends on which tradition and school he is following (if he isn't an 'independent Buddhist' as some folks I have met online claim to be).
 
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wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
Lets just say I know this person who claims to be a Buddhist. I have my personal doubts as to his legitimacy, as I know him quite well, and although I don't know that much about Buddhism, something seems amiss. I do know my Hinduism. For example, although married, he dons his homemade robes and makes like a monk. I could never do that in Hinduism.

That means nothing. There are plenty of ordained Zen priests and monks who marry, just not while living in the monastery. If your friend is not living in a monastery, then he has no obligation to follow the monastic code. It has been acceptable for more than a thousand years for a non-monastic practitioner to don robes, especially while they practice zazen itself.

I actually know of several married couples, BOTH of whom don robes and practice together, BOTH of whom are not only ordained and have taken the Precepts, but have accepted Transmission (certified as enlightened by a practicing Master). One of the Precepts is to avoid abusing sexuality, but that has been interpreted a thousand ways.
 

koan

Active Member
A true Buddhist, stands up for his beliefs and smites his enemies and converts the non believers.
OOPS, I was confused with the Abrahamic religions.
 

Tathagata

Freethinker
A true Buddhist, stands up for his beliefs and smites his enemies and converts the non believers.
OOPS, I was confused with the Abrahamic religions.

No, actually you were right the first time. Buddhists are to stand up for their beliefs, vanquish opposing doctrines, and convert the non-believers:

"Preach it, make it known, establish it, open it, minutely explain it, and make it clear-until they, when others start vain doctrines, shall be able to vanquish and refute them, and so to spread the wonderworking truth abroad. I shall not die until the pure religion of truth shall have become successful, prosperous, widespread, and popular in all its full extent-until, in a word, it shall have been well proclaimed among men!"
-- the Buddha [Mahaparinibbana Sutta]



.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Lets just say I know this person who claims to be a Buddhist. I have my personal doubts as to his legitimacy, as I know him quite well, and although I don't know that much about Buddhism, something seems amiss. I do know my Hinduism. For example, although married, he dons his homemade robes and makes like a monk. I could never do that in Hinduism.

He underwent the task of making his robe. Good enough for now.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,

A line from the song by Theophilus London – I Stand Alone
The clothes don't make the man
It's the man that makes the clothes

So what one does is his own karma and dharma which should be left alone. He should be free to stitch his clothes or walk his own path; as we should follow our's without interference.

Love & rgds
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
No, actually you were right the first time. Buddhists are to stand up for their beliefs, vanquish opposing doctrines, and convert the non-believers:
.

ha ha , yes , by example alone :yes:



now seriously to vinayaka's question ,

what is a real buddhist ?
one who keeps the precepts ,

one who has faith in the buddha , and above all takes refuge .

I refrain from comment on the robes ???
I worry most about the immpression it might make ?
as not only the person is judged on their outwards appearance , but the whole tradition , the behavior is most important .
 

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
Perhaps if a person accepts as true dukkha, anatta, anicca and nibbana, this is an indication that they could be described as a Buddhist?

Is the robe necessary if one is a lay person?

'The man who wears the yellow-dyed robe but is not free from stains himself, without self-restraint and integrity, is unworthy of the robe.

But the man who has freed himself of stains and has found peace of mind in an upright life, possessing self-restraint and integrity, he is indeed worthy of the dyed robe.'

- Dhammapada.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Thanks again everyone for all your answers. I got some insight, enough to confirm what I expected.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Is the robe necessary if one is a lay person?

Probably not. As lot of lay people dont wear robes and their practice is fine. Some do for by which a robe is sewn with mindfullness, even by lay, is IMO significant enough that one should be encouraged to at least, at some point, experience the task even if they dont ever wear it. I think its a beneficial thing provided there is no deceptive intent involved in the making and use of one.
 

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friends,

monk   [muhngk] Show IPA
noun
1.
(in Christianity) a man who has withdrawn from the world for religious reasons, especially as a member of an order of cenobites living according to a particular rule and under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience.
2.(in any religion) a man who is a member of a monastic order: a Buddhist monk.

The point friend Vinayaka raised is
although married, he dons his homemade robes and makes like a monk.
from wiki:
In Theravada Buddhism, bhikkhu is the term for monk. Their disciplinary code is called the patimokkha, which is part of the larger Vinaya. They live lives of mendicancy, and go on a morning almsround (Pali: pindapata) every day. The local people give food for the monks to eat, though the monks are not permitted to positively ask for anything. The monks live in monasteries, and have an important function in traditional Asian society. Young boys can be ordained as samaneras. Both bhikkhus and samaneras eat only in the morning, and are not supposed to lead a luxurious life. Their rules forbid the use of money, although this rule is nowadays not kept by all monks. The monks are part of the Sangha, the third of the Triple Gem of Buddha, Dhamma, Sangha.
In Mahayana Buddhism, the term 'Sangha' strictly speaking refers to those who have achieved certain levels of understanding. They are therefore called 'community of the excellent ones' (Tibetan: mchog kyi tshogs); however, these in turn need not be monks (i.e., hold such vows). Several Mahayana orders accept female practitioners as monks, instead of using the normal title of "nun", and they are considered equal to male ascetics in all respects.
The Bhikkhus are only allowed 4 items (other than their robes): a razor, a needle, an alms bowl and a water strainer.
The understanding that emerges from these terms/meanings etc. is that monks are those who are no longer a householder and lives in a monastery and are celibate in all sense of the word/s.

Love & rgds
 

dyanaprajna2011

Dharmapala
There is one other explanation, and this might be true particularly if your friend is a convert to Buddhism: he could just be overly excited, and is attempting to experience the whole of what Buddhism offers. It seems to be a little misleading of him to do so, but it could just be purely innocent, and he may not have known that it might cause some issues to be raised by doing so.
 
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