ESP, psychic and supernatural phenomenon... yes or no?

espo35 said:

God also made iron plentiful on the earth.

Does that mean He's to blame for bullets?

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That's the catch really.
If you're all powerful and the source of everything, that essentially means that you get all the blame as well.
Cause and effect.

crystalonyx said:

I assume that you have convincing extraordinay evidence for this extraordinary statement.

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Yes, as a matter of fact, I do; otherwise, I wouldn't be 100% certain. Whether or not it's convincing...? Some people refuse to believe what's right in front of them. Some people refuse to acknowledge what is clearly true. Therefore, whether something is convincing or not is not always an indicator of whether or not something is true. Many times the truth can seem like the biggest lie and a lie can seem like the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but...

fallingblood said:

I'm not saying you need my approval. I'm saying that if you want to claim something is a fact, you have to show that it is a fact. What you are stating are opinions, which you claim are facts. That is not the same as a fact. That is an opinion. If you have no evidence to back up your claim, it is an opinion.

That opinion is fine to have, as long as you don't try to pass it off as a fact when it is not. Because it simply is not a fact. And I know you aren't going to try to prove that it is a fact, and that's fine. As long as you realize that you are talking about opinions.

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As I've already stated, this is not about opinion. What I've stated are facts. People disbelieve facts all the time, even when the facts are right in front of them. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, a fact does not have to be universally accepted in order for it to be an actual fact. Just like there are skeptics, there are also many people that know that what I've stated are facts (and more and more every day are finding them to be). Sometimes it takes a long time for some people to catch up to those that already know something to be a fact. And sometimes nothing short of firsthand experience will prove something to someone. And even then, some still disbelieve what they themselves experience because the disbelief is so deeply rooted. Therefore, once again... if you don't believe that what I've stated are facts, then that is your right. You have a right to disbelieve something that does not ring true to you or that you feel has not been proven to you. But as I've stated -- your disbelief has absolutely no bearing on whether or not what I've stated are facts. They are facts whether you agree that they are or not.

crystalonyx said:

I assume that you have convincing extraordinay evidence for this extraordinary statement.

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thebigpicture said:

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do; otherwise, I wouldn't be 100% certain.

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Then by all means, present that evidence. :sarcastic

jarofthoughts said:

Then by all means, present that evidence. :sarcastic

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I second this. If what you are saying is fact, show that to be the case.

fallingblood said:

I second this. If what you are saying is fact, show that to be the case.

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Remember this:

thebigpicture said:

(Chuckles) Apparently, you have me confused with someone who feels they need to prove something to you. This is not a theatre; I'm not here to entertain you with a magic show. Experience. That's all I can tell you. You either believe it or you don't. When and if you ever experience something that changes you skepticism, maybe you can put on that little magic show you expected from me for someone else who's a skeptic like you.

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It applies to you as well.

Now before you go on in your next reply post about how this means that what I've stated aren't facts... Remember this:

thebigpicture said:

If you think that everybody has to believe a fact in order for that fact to be an actual fact, you're delusional. People disbelieve what clearly are facts all the time. I'm not going to waste my time proving something like that to a skeptic. You either believe it or you don't. Some things people have to experience firsthand in order for their views to change, which I completely understand. If and when you experience something, then you'll know. If not, then you'll remain a skeptic. Either way, I'm good.

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It applies to you as well. And remember this:

Originally Posted by thebigpicture
At the risk of sounding like a broken record, a fact does not have to be universally accepted in order for it to be an actual fact. Just like there are skeptics, there are also many people that know that what I’ve stated are facts (and more and more every day are finding it to be). Sometimes it takes a long time for some people to catch up with those that already know something to be a fact.

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It still applies.

Are you getting my point? We're going in circles, aren't we? Listen, the bottom line is that what I've stated are facts. You not believing that they are facts is not going to change the fact that they are facts. My refusing to waste my time proving to you that they are facts is not going to change the fact that they are facts. You saying that my not proving to you that they are facts means they are not facts is not going to change the fact that -- they are indeed facts. They are facts. That is not going to change. My position on it is not going to change. Your opinion on the matter is not going to change. I'm fine with that. I'm okay with it. It does not matter. I'mmm goood. I realize that not everybody is going to agree on everything...don't you? There are no hard feelings. So, really, what's the point in carrying on? I mean, c'mon honestly...do you really see a point in carrying on? I certainly don't.

Gaura Priya said:

Do you believe in it? Yes or no?

I am a sceptic when it comes to supernatural phenomenon... Except for my belief in God, the Afterlife, the soul, and the material realm, it is difficult for me to believe in angels, demigods, ghosts and demons, seeing them as metaphorical.

ESP and psychic phenomenon, furthermore, are things that are occurring within the material laws instead of above them; after all, if humans are capable of them, why not? It goes back to Vaishnavism teaching that siddhis, or yogic powers, are attainable, yet pointless in spiritual life because they distract and can lead to pride.

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I'm in the no camp as well. There may be some odd anomaly that happens on occasion at a quantum level, but we are in no position to scientifically measure it, or understand its catalysts. I personally say no, but if it does happen, I'm obviously of the opinion that its some weird quantum phenomenon that somehow temporarily passes from a proto state into an emergent state and its completely natural.

thebigpicture said:

It still applies.

Are you getting my point? We're going in circles, aren't we? Listen, the bottom line is that what I've stated are facts. You not believing that they are facts is not going to change the fact that they are facts. My refusing to waste my time proving to you that they are facts is not going to change the fact that they are facts. You saying that my not proving to you that they are facts means they are not facts is not going to change the fact that -- they are indeed facts. They are facts. That is not going to change. My position on it is not going to change. Your opinion on the matter is not going to change. I'm fine with that. I'm okay with it. It does not matter. I'mmm goood. I realize that not everybody is going to agree on everything...don't you? There are no hard feelings. So, really, what's the point in carrying on? I mean, c'mon honestly...do you really see a point in carrying on? I certainly don't.

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We're going in circles because you refuse to provide any evidence for the so called fact that you are talking about.

As it stands, it is not a fact. Why? Because there is no evidence. Without evidence, you don't have a fact, you have an opinion you have mistaken for a fact.

Me saying over and over again that the sky is green, and calling that a fact, doesn't make it so. It just means I'm repeating myself. That is all you're doing. Simply, you have no fact. You have an opinion.

fallingblood said:

We're going in circles because you refuse to provide any evidence for the so called fact that you are talking about.

As it stands, it is not a fact. Why? Because there is no evidence. Without evidence, you don't have a fact, you have an opinion you have mistaken for a fact.

Me saying over and over again that the sky is green, and calling that a fact, doesn't make it so. It just means I'm repeating myself. That is all you're doing. Simply, you have no fact. You have an opinion.

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And, unsurprisingly, I'll second this.

fallingblood said:

We're going in circles because you refuse to provide any evidence for the so called fact that you are talking about.

As it stands, it is not a fact. Why? Because there is no evidence. Without evidence, you don't have a fact, you have an opinion you have mistaken for a fact.

Me saying over and over again that the sky is green, and calling that a fact, doesn't make it so. It just means I'm repeating myself. That is all you're doing. Simply, you have no fact. You have an opinion.

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(LAUGHS!!) If believing that nonsense keeps your boat afloat, then by all means keep believing it. But um...don't know about you, but I'm feeling a little dizzy riding this carousel. Moving on!

jarofthoughts said:

So hell is a lie then?
Still sounds like practical enslavement to me though.
It's like telling a dying man that you won't save him unless he does what you tell him to do.
Pretty effective threat, wouldn't you say?

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Yes, a hell of eternal torment is a lie.
That's the issue each of us face, the same issue Adam faced. Will we accept God's sovereignty, or will we decide for ourselves what is good and bad? (Acts 4:24) God created us and is free to decide who will continue to live or not. But he allows us the freedom of choice to serve him or not. God's right to rule is not affected by what we do. Ultimately, as mentioned in the famous Lord's prayer, God's Name will be sanctified, his kingdom will come, and his will take place on earth.(Matthew 6:9,10)
Acts 5:29 states;"We must obey God as ruler." As in times past, God will not indefinitely tolerate evildoing and violence as today fills the earth. God does not threaten us. He simply announces his will and purpose as Sovereign Ruler and invites us to take life's water free. (Isaiah chapter 55)

rusra02 said:

Yes, a hell of eternal torment is a lie.
That's the issue each of us face, the same issue Adam faced. Will we accept God's sovereignty, or will we decide for ourselves what is good and bad? (Acts 4:24) God created us and is free to decide who will continue to live or not. But he allows us the freedom of choice to serve him or not. God's right to rule is not affected by what we do. Ultimately, as mentioned in the famous Lord's prayer, God's Name will be sanctified, his kingdom will come, and his will take place on earth.(Matthew 6:9,10)
Acts 5:29 states;"We must obey God as ruler." As in times past, God will not indefinitely tolerate evildoing and violence as today fills the earth. God does not threaten us. He simply announces his will and purpose as Sovereign Ruler and invites us to take life's water free. (Isaiah chapter 55)

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And you don't see how telling a dying man that you won't save him unless he does as you tell him can be perceived as a threat?

thebigpicture said:

(LAUGHS!!) If believing that nonsense keeps your boat afloat, then by all means keep believing it. But um...don't know about you, but I'm feeling a little dizzy riding this carousel. Moving on!

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Wow!
You're really working hard to destroy your credibility, aren't you?
Oh well, moving on...

Paranormal and parapsychical-related genre are all interesting fiction to read or watch (well, not all), but no, I don't believe in them.

well this is a very heavy topic and a few sentences dont do it justice but...a lot of people say something is metaphysical or occultic but in reality its something that is based on the way things are and quite frankly unless uve been witness to something or do something that most wouldnt believe then yeah u could believe in whatever u want and not something else.....ive witnessed a man handle a 4 man gun attack at distance whilst he was sitting in a chair...that was 1983..i was one of the 4 and now this maybe casting pearls but suffice to say that these things can be done as the system was based on the way things really are...remember that most self defence systems have there roots in some hitherto occultic spiritual belief....maybe they dont explain it correctly or the systems that are currently available are a watered down version of ancient practices....i personally believe both are true to some degree and thus most explantions of metaphysical,occultic,spiritual things have the same problem....might sound a bit cryptic but i dont like saying that most belief structures based on faith,that are present in todays world leave people staggering round in the dark for that very reason...esp well i dont know but i know a lot of military research bucks goes into remote viewing,esp research,etc etc..what those results are only few know but their doing it all the same... a bit left field but ive said what i can.