Untranslated fourth word of the Bible

world nonpotent · Oct 28, 2005

What is it to be an individual member of the community; once in the life we have the CALLING to a profession, and once in our lives we have the calling to appropriately Love someone. Not like Dean Martin, mind you, for there is the sober Becoming to take so utterly serious, or to take in the light of Nature (and here and now ARE many plausible Lights); why, oh why, is someone better in physics, someone else in philosophy, someone else in psychology: not forever, for there continues to BE the sober sensible way of dealing TALEN, by wealth, by waste, good German waste, or the wasting of one's physical environment; THERE should be also a way to rear our children not to suffer the TALEN in the dirt; that I believe was to sensibly make up our minds about a PERSON"S character: yes, was that a result of heredity or environment.

: and which takes priority. Against St. John, I say that the environment took priority for so many humble people, that reading Him over and over again; it takes humble refusal for LOVE of the world clause: only St. John could understand himself;

: the human being is not Done.:jam:

Yours sincerely,

Chris K.

jonny · Oct 28, 2005

Ronald said:
You are right it appears and is untranslated in English in each of the verses.
Strongs, 853 appar. cont. from 226 in the demonstr. sense of enity; prop. self (but gen. used to point out more def. the object of a verb or prep,, even or namely):---{as such unrepresented in English}

Unbelievable. That is simply amazing. I see the world in such a different light now.

Deut 13:1 · Oct 28, 2005

jonny said:
Unbelievable. That is simply amazing. I see the world in such a different light now.

Or you could ignore what I just said...

The first word is be're**** not ba're**** meaning that the "The" is even more inappropriate. Also, the literal translation would be First, or At First, not In the beginning. If they wanted to say, In The Beginning, they would have used ba'hatkhaka. The reason it is translated literally as First is because be're**** comes from the word rishon, meaning first.

Ronald · Oct 29, 2005

wmam said:
This makes a whole lot of sense to me at this stage in my life and I would like to know if you still feel this way here 4 to 5 months later about what you posted?

Four months later and I stand by those posts, have no reason to change any of them. There was no arguement against that meaning. How about you in your stage of life?

Deut 13:1 · Oct 29, 2005

Ronald said:
Four months later and I stand by those posts, have no reason to change any of them. There was no arguement against that meaning. How about you in your stage of life?

Well, I guess if you have no understanding of Hebrew and the Jewish scriptures, and you guess and come up with your own interpretations, then yea, you have no reason to change your opinion.

standing_on_one_foot · Oct 29, 2005

How do we know it's be'rei**** bara and not ba'rei**** bara, out of curiosity? Since they're spelled the same way, and the Torah has no vowels? I mean, that's always how it's pronounced, but how do we know?

Nothing especially mysterious about "et" though...it's like someone who speaks Hebrew thinking "a" is mysterious because it doesn't show up in Hebrew.

Deut 13:1 · Oct 29, 2005

standing_on_one_foot said:
How do we know it's be'rei**** bara and not ba'rei**** bara, out of curiosity? Since they're spelled the same way, and the Torah has no vowels? I mean, that's always how it's pronounced, but how do we know?

Simple question for you -- how do we (both you and I) know what vowels are underneath ANY words in the Torah. Meaning, could you in a few sentences describe how you and I, in the year 5766, know what vowels go where?

After you answer that question, could you please tell me why it is that in other instances of the Bible, the NASB does not use Lord, but uses master (Tehillim (Psalms) 110:1.) For example, Bereishis (Gen) 24:36, 54, etc. The very same word (alef, dalet, nun, yud) is used here and in other places. No vowels anywhere. Tell me, how does NASB know one from the other? If we don't know which one is which, then on what basis does the Christian NASB translation translate the very same word differently in other parts of the Bible?

Are they guessing? Are they using a randomizer of some sort?

standing_on_one_foot said:
Nothing especially mysterious about "et" though...it's like someone who speaks Hebrew thinking "a" is mysterious because it doesn't show up in Hebrew.

Es or Et depending on your pronounciation isn't special at all. It is similar to me saying

binyamin.
but.. if I had an Es or Et depending on your pronounciation, it would be:
Binyamin.

Notice the difference? I mean it doesn't really have a big significance.

Bennettresearch · Oct 30, 2005

This is fascinating but I am not getting it quite yet. Would someone please point out to me where this et falls in the english version of this verse? Is it, "In the beginning God created (et) the heavens and the earth?" Is this why it is so mysterious?

michel · Oct 30, 2005

Bennettresearch said:
This is fascinating but I am not getting it quite yet. Would someone please point out to me where this et falls in the english version of this verse? Is it, "In the beginning God created (et) the heavens and the earth?" Is this why it is so mysterious?

that makes two of us.........:shout

Terrywoodenpic · Oct 30, 2005

If... Aleph Tav = alpha and Omega= the beginning and end.
Could this not mean that the first thing God created was Time.
God himself has no need of time whereas his Creation does.

Terry___________________________
Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.

wmam · Oct 30, 2005

Ronald said:
Four months later and I stand by those posts, have no reason to change any of them. There was no arguement against that meaning. How about you in your stage of life?

Thank you for asking............ I at the time am continuing research and educating myself on the subject of "The Way" as well as other subjects pertaining to the true and only Sect.

Ronald · Oct 30, 2005

God, in the case of Christians, Jesus, is so enamoured with the sound of his own voice he uttered many an empty phrase, just to hear the ambeiance of his words!------------ NOT!

Every thing in Torah is there for His purpose, that would mean "aleph tav" has a significant role, so unless you are God, you can't say with any authority, it is meaningless.

Deut 13:1 · Oct 30, 2005

Ronald said:
God, in the case of Christians, Jesus, is so enamoured with the sound of his own voice he uttered many an empty phrase, just to hear the ambeiance of his words!------------ NOT!

Every thing in Torah is there for His purpose, that would mean "aleph tav" has a significant role, so unless you are God, you can't say with any authority, it is meaningless.

Devarim (Duet) 14:1

wmam · Oct 30, 2005

Don't you just love it when others attack you for what you believe? They say things like "you don't know what you are talking about" or "you haven't got a clue". Then they go on to show that they are somehow more knowledgable about what happened thousands of years before they were even born than you. LOL ......... You have to take everything with a grain of salt with the exception of the true Word of YAH!!!!!!!

I understand that it looks like that what is meant in this passage is that YAHweh, in the beginning, created Himself which would inturn create all. As is said, He is the "Beginning" and the End. The "Alpha" and the Omega.

Though this has been quite a debate that I for one have enjoyed reading, with the exceptions of meaningless attacks on ones knowledge, I have to say we are not to put stumbling blocks in the path of ourselves and or others when it comes to what is truly important and that would be, IMHO, the complete and udder discipline of our Creators Law and Faith of YAHshua, the Anointed. This of course is my own opinion so you can take it for what its worth to you or leave it. It's nice to have debates and or converse on what others believe and think are the true translations of the Bible but then I have to question as to which translation are we trying to translate? I would love nothing more than to delve into the Hebrew translation. This would take some time being that I do not know how to read Hebrew much less speak it. If we cannot translate ourselves what is written in other languages, then we are predisposed to accept what others put in front of us as being fact. We need to educate ourselves and dig deep to "search out all things and keep that which is good". You know....... Chew the meat and spit out the bones.

I for one will continue to look forward to seeing more from this thread with hopes and prayers of negating the practice of attacking ones thoughts and feelings on their understanding of the Word.

Shalom.

wmam · Oct 30, 2005

Binyamin said:
Devarim (Duet) 14:1

Explain please?

Deut 13:1 · Oct 30, 2005

wmam said:
Explain please?

Devarim (Duet) 14:1
בָּנִים אַתֶּם, לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם

wmam said:
I would love nothing more than to delve into the Hebrew translation.

How did it work out for you?

Also, just a general thing, there is a difference between asking a question like Bennettresearch and Michael do, and then lecturing on what a word means when more then likely, you have zero understanding of the language. It's like me lecturing on Spanish when I can't speak it, but know a couple words here or there.

wmam · Oct 30, 2005

Devarim (Duet) 14:1
בָּנִים אַתֶּם, לַיהוָה אֱלֹהֵיכֶם

You must still try to explain where someone as simple as I can understand unless you think me not worthy enough to comprehend.

How did it work out for you?

Actually........ It didn't. I have yet had the time to learn the language so it has yet to ummmmmm ... "work for" me.

Also, just a general thing, there is a difference between asking a question like Bennettresearch and Michael do, and then lecturing on what a word means when more then likely, you have zero understanding of the language. It's like me lecturing on Spanish when I can't speak it, but know a couple words here or there.

Ummmmmmmmm .............. o.k.
I really didn't see any rules as to how someone could actually speak his mind on a given subject, or word for that matter, but I did see where we shouldn't attack and or ridicule one another. That being said I am sure you never meant anything by it and it was just a "general thing".

Deut 13:1 · Oct 30, 2005

wmam said:
You must still try to explain where someone as simple as I can understand unless you think me not worthy enough to comprehend.

Go to a Yasheva to learn. Reading a translation of the bible is stupid and a waste of time unless you study the Oral law which accompanies it.

wmam said:
Actually........ It didn't. I have yet had the time to learn the language so it has yet to ummmmmm ... "work for" me.

From the post above, I thought you could translate Hebrew.

All I posted was: "You are children of the Lord, your God."

wmam said:
Ummmmmmmmm .............. o.k.
I really didn't see any rules as to how someone could actually speak his mind on a given subject, or word for that matter, but I did see where we shouldn't attack and or ridicule one another. That being said I am sure you never meant anything by it and it was just a "general thing".

Bennettresearch · Oct 30, 2005

michel said:
that makes two of us.........:shout

hi Michel,

Since the experts aren't coming forward with any answers I'll attempt to identify what this is about. This word et appears in many places but it apparently doesn't have any meaning in Hebrew, which is why is hasn't been translated. Apprently it is just there in the Hebrew text and is generally overlooked as needing any interpretation. I guess us stupid people who read translations can just disregard it.

Craig

Deut 13:1 · Oct 30, 2005

Bennettresearch said:
hi Michel,

Since the experts aren't coming forward with any answers I'll attempt to identify what this is about. This word et appears in many places but it apparently doesn't have any meaning in Hebrew, which is why is hasn't been translated. Apprently it is just there in the Hebrew text and is generally overlooked as needing any interpretation. I guess us stupid people who read translations can just disregard it.

Craig

I thought I already said what it was, but I'll say again, in case I didn't.

The word "es" is loosely translated as "the" - but in reality it doesn't have a meaning per se. Each es in the Torah has something special to teach us. In the case of Bereishis 1:1, the rabbi's tell us it teaches us that heaven and all its hosts were created and the earth and all its hosts. So the word Es comes to teach us everything included in the heaven and earth.

Untranslated fourth word of the Bible

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