Coming to the knowledge of the truth

2 Timothy 3:7 says that in the last days men shall be, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Perhaps, then, it is possible for some people to actually "come to the knowledge of the truth." Jesus said, "I am the truth." What say ye?

He's wrong. Peano led to the truth.

javajo said:

2 Timothy 3:7 says that in the last days men shall be, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Perhaps, then, it is possible for some people to actually "come to the knowledge of the truth." Jesus said, "I am the truth." What say ye?

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It ultimately depends on what "the truth" is. Some things (ie the purpose of life) don't have a simple explanation or answer.

Jesus seems to be using the word "truth" in a poetic sense. Otherwise, truth is the degree to which a proposition corresponds to its referent. At least, I think so.

What do you think Jesus meant when he said he actually was the truth? In the context of his statement, Jesus was telling the disciples he was going to prepare a place for them so they could be with him and the Father. They did not know the way, so he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me."

He also said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:23 and, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. John 15:26

So, could Jesus and his words be the truth? Is he speaking the truth when he says no man can come to the Father but by me? Is he speaking of his atoning death to satisfy the justice of God the Father perhaps?

Perhaps the Truth is that death comes to all of us, and when accept that, we will be free from the true terror of death, and then continue to freely go to whatever you beleive happens after death and be happily deceased and free from confines of a mortal body.

javajo said:

2 Timothy 3:7 says that in the last days men shall be, "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."

Perhaps, then, it is possible for some people to actually "come to the knowledge of the truth." Jesus said, "I am the truth." What say ye?

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Sounds like yet another contradiction from a not so perfect god.

AgnosticAtheistDebate770 said:

Perhaps the Truth is that death comes to all of us, and when accept that, we will be free from the true terror of death, and then continue to freely go to whatever you beleive happens after death and be happily deceased and free from confines of a mortal body.

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1 Corinthians 15 speaks of this terror or sting of death:

O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Because of Jesus Christ it says death has lost its sting. What do you think Jesus did so that the law, sin, and death lost their victory and sting?

javajo said:

Because of Jesus Christ it says death has lost its sting. What do you think Jesus did so that the law, sin, and death lost their victory and sting?

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He made a claim that lots of people believed, so they lost some of their fear of death. It's one reason Christianity has been so successful.

Daniel 12:4 “And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant.

true understanding was to be opened up during the last days...we are in the last days right now, so yes, true knowledge is to be found.

AmbiguousGuy said:

He made a claim that lots of people believed, so they lost some of their fear of death. It's one reason Christianity has been so successful.

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I believe the Bible states he did more than just make a claim, though he did make some of those. One claim was that as Moses lifted up the brass serpent in the wilderness and people looked at it and were saved from the deadly snake bights, so must he be lifted up, signifying what kind of death he would die on the cross. I believe all who trust in him, that his death on the cross paid our sin penalty, will be saved and spend eternity with him. And that, I believe, is why death really does lose its sting.

The Bible also says its more than just losing some fear of death, but that we can actually have real assurance here and now that we know we are freely saved as a gift, so death really has lost its sting and victory, I believe.

javajo said:

What do you think Jesus meant when he said he actually was the truth? In the context of his statement, Jesus was telling the disciples he was going to prepare a place for them so they could be with him and the Father. They did not know the way, so he said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me."

He also said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. John 8:23 and, "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me. John 15:26

So, could Jesus and his words be the truth? Is he speaking the truth when he says no man can come to the Father but by me? Is he speaking of his atoning death to satisfy the justice of God the Father perhaps?

Click to expand...

i think Jesus is saying that He is the reality, or the truth, of all that God promised to do in regards to how God would redeem mankind from sin and death.

And thats also how death is said to 'loose its sting'.... because though Christ, death will be brought to nothing...God will remove death so that people may live forever.
Revelation 21:4 "And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

Pegg said:

i think Jesus is saying that He is the reality, or the truth, of all that God promised to do in regards to how God would redeem mankind from sin and death.

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Hi, since Jesus paid the wages of sin (death) by dying in our place to redeem those who trust that he did it, and God was satisfied with the payment, do you believe that if a person trusts 100% in Jesus to have paid their sin debt in full that they are now completely saved forever or do you believe they must add something more that they do to Christ's finished work on the cross?

javajo said:

Hi, since Jesus paid the wages of sin (death) by dying in our place to redeem those who trust that he did it, and God was satisfied with the payment, do you believe that if a person trusts 100% in Jesus to have paid their sin debt in full that they are now completely saved forever or do you believe they must add something more that they do to Christ's finished work on the cross?

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It requires that we now take responsibility for our actions, so we must do more.

John 3:36 shows that more is needed. Notice that 'exercising faith' is the opposite of 'disobedience'...so it is more then believing. We either 'exercise' faith, or we 'disobey'...there is no middle ground.
"He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him"
So its imperative that we know exactly what 'exercising faith' means and how to do it.

And Paul makes it clear that we must do more then simply 'believe'...we must also display the 'fruitage of light' in our lives:
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive YOU with empty words, for because of the aforesaid things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partakers with them; 8 for YOU were once darkness, but YOU are now light in connection with [the] Lord. Go on walking as children of light, 9 for the fruitage of the light consists of every sort of goodness and righteousness and truth. 10 Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; 11 and quit sharing with [them] in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness, but, rather, even be reproving [them], 12 for the things that take place in secret by them it is shameful even to relate. 13 Now all the things that are being reproved are made manifest by the light, for everything that is being made manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he says: “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and the Christ will shine upon you.”

javajo said:

I believe all who trust in him, that his death on the cross paid our sin penalty, will be saved and spend eternity with him. And that, I believe, is why death really does lose its sting.

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OK. I'm glad that you find some comfort in your beliefs.

Pegg said:

It requires that we now take responsibility for our actions, so we must do more.

John 3:36 shows that more is needed. Notice that 'exercising faith' is the opposite of 'disobedience'...so it is more then believing. We either 'exercise' faith, or we 'disobey'...there is no middle ground.
"He that exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; he that disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him"
So its imperative that we know exactly what 'exercising faith' means and how to do it.

And Paul makes it clear that we must do more then simply 'believe'...we must also display the 'fruitage of light' in our lives:
Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive YOU with empty words, for because of the aforesaid things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience. 7 Therefore do not become partakers with them; 8 for YOU were once darkness, but YOU are now light in connection with [the] Lord. Go on walking as children of light, 9 for the fruitage of the light consists of every sort of goodness and righteousness and truth. 10 Keep on making sure of what is acceptable to the Lord; 11 and quit sharing with [them] in the unfruitful works that belong to the darkness, but, rather, even be reproving [them], 12 for the things that take place in secret by them it is shameful even to relate. 13 Now all the things that are being reproved are made manifest by the light, for everything that is being made manifest is light. 14 Wherefore he says: “Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and the Christ will shine upon you.”

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I understand. I believe when one has trusted in Christ, that his death paid for all their sins in full, they are completely and forever saved. Good works and holiness come as a result of growing in grace, as a result of the Holy Spirit working in the life of a believer as they yield to Him in obedience and discipleship. These works are not in addition to what Christ has done and are only an evidence of our salvation but in no way contribute to our salvation for salvation is of God because of Christ's finished work on the cross.

In other words, I believe their are two different types of religion: One that teaches we help save ourselves, and another that teaches God has done everything required to save us. And there are two groups of people, those who believe they must help God save them by good works, holding out faithful, cleaning up their act, observing certain ceremonies and sacraments, or belonging to a specific group or denomination. And those who simply trust alone in Christ alone by faith alone, that his work on the cross paid their sin debt in full and they are trusting in that, in Him for eternal life and nothing more and nothing less. Then all those other things will follow as a result of their now being born again as new creatures in Christ. First the new birth, then the growing in grace.