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James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.corrupt_priest said:the book of james
written by - james
........ which james? does it specify?
Yes.......... "James is called "the Lord's brother" (Galatians 1:19)"Aqualung said:The Bible dictionary in my quad says "The writer is generally thought of as the Lord's brother, the son of Mary..." I always thought it was James the Apostles brother of John. Huh.
Yes, but an actual half brother. Jesus called a lot of people his brother. This one was the son of his mother, too.michel said:Yes.......... "James is called "the Lord's brother" (Galatians 1:19)"
Not according to Holy Tradition. None of the churches with an unbroken succession from the Apostles (Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or Roman Catholic) would accept this. There are good reasons from Scripture to believe that this Tradition is correct also. If James had been the son of Mary, for instance, it would be unthinkable that Christ would have entrusted His mother to somebody else. There are actually two views on who James might have been. One is that he was an older relative of Christ, Joseph's son from a previous marriage and the other is that he was a cousin, the word brother often being used to describe more distant male relatives at the time the Gospels were written.Aqualung said:Yes, but an actual half brother. Jesus called a lot of people his brother. This one was the son of his mother, too.
... in fact, so incidental as to be worthless. James is widely considered pseudepigraphic.michel said:An incidental confirmation that the epistle of James was written by the same James who presided at the Jerusalem council is ...
Aqualung said:Yes, but an actual half brother. Jesus called a lot of people his brother. This one was the son of his mother, too.
Not one of these quotes states that Mary was the father of James. I've already explained the use of the term brother (and in actual fact, if James was Joseph's son by a previous marriage we would call him a brother of Jesus even today). It's clear that you're trying to argue against the ever-virginity of Mary, which is common to Protestants, but not to any of the churches I referred to in my previous post. Having discarded all of your other quotes as proving anything about Mary being the mother of James (which is undeniably justified, even if he were, these Scriptures do not state it), there is only one remaining that has any bearing on the issue:glasgowchick said:Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?" Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days." Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
Gal. 1:19 - "But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."
a most interesting Link, Jay, Thank you for both that and the new word to my vocabulary .Jayhawker Soule said:... in fact, so incidental as to be worthless. James is widely considered pseudepigraphic.
Thats true, Mary was not the Father of James..As for the rest I have to disagree and since this thred is on the book of James maybe another thred could be started on wether Mary remained a virgin...not one of those quotes state that mary was the father of James
JamesThePersian said:Not one of these quotes states that Mary was the father of James. I've already explained the use of the term brother (and in actual fact, if James was Joseph's son by a previous marriage we would call him a brother of Jesus even today). It's clear that you're trying to argue against the ever-virginity of Mary, which is common to Protestants, but not to any of the churches I referred to in my previous post. Having discarded all of your other quotes as proving anything about Mary being the mother of James (which is undeniably justified, even if he were, these Scriptures do not state it), there is only one remaining that has any bearing on the issue:
"And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
Unfortunately for the point you are trying to make, however, in many languages (Greek and Romanian being ones I am familiar with that exhibit this), the word 'until' does not have the same meaning as in English. If we say 'I didn't do that until 12.00', the implication is that we did do it afterwards. This is not the case in Greek at all. Saying that Mary remained virgin until Christ was born implies nothing further at all. The sentence would be rendered exactly the same whether she remained virgin afterwards or not.
Whilst I agree that the English translation may be read as you do, the original text most certainly do not support either side of the argument. Holy Tradition states that she remained virgin and that James was not her son. Scripture also implies that Mary had no other children but Christ as she was entrusted to John after the Crucifixion. The weight of evidence, I'm afraid, is against those who would argue that James was Mary's son and Christ's younger brother.
James
You have a good point there, but I really don't think it matters at all to me whether or not Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born. The only thing that matters is that Jesus was born of a virgin.JamesThePersian said:Not according to Holy Tradition. None of the churches with an unbroken succession from the Apostles (Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or Roman Catholic) would accept this. There are good reasons from Scripture to believe that this Tradition is correct also. If James had been the son of Mary, for instance, it would be unthinkable that Christ would have entrusted His mother to somebody else. There are actually two views on who James might have been. One is that he was an older relative of Christ, Joseph's son from a previous marriage and the other is that he was a cousin, the word brother often being used to describe more distant male relatives at the time the Gospels were written.
James
Do you mind my asking what evidence you have that Mary was James's mother? There's no such evidence in Scripture so I'm intrigued as to what extra-Biblical sources you are relying on for this.blueman said:This is James, the brother of Jesus and son of Mary. James, like some other members of Jesus's family, had their doubts about Jesus's claims in being the Son of the living God. It wasn't until after Jesus's resurrection that James became a believer and a fervent advocate for Christianity all the way up until his stoning.
Hi CP,corrupt_priest said:the book of james
written by - james
........ which james? does it specify?
that is indeed very interestingBennettresearch said:Hi CP,
Really good question. I thought you would be interested in a statement made by the author of the book, "Who Wrote the New Testament?"
"Those of the centrist tradition had to counter this gnosticizing tendency. They did so by writing treatises against the Gnostic "heresies" appealing to the "historical" Jesus of the gospels, and working hard to appropriate as many of the apostles as they could for their "orthodox" Christian teaching. They did this by writing gospels, letters, sermons, and instructions in the apostle's names."
(Burton L. Mack)
Pretty interesting. He is saying that none of the Apostles wrote any of the books or letters in the Bible.
Craig
JamesThePersian said:Do you mind my asking what evidence you have that Mary was James's mother? There's no such evidence in Scripture so I'm intrigued as to what extra-Biblical sources you are relying on for this.
James