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the book of james

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by Mike182, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    the book of james

    written by - james

    ........ which james? does it specify?
     
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  2. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

    Defender's notes.........
    James was prominent in the early Jerusalem church; one of the "pillars" along with Peter and John (Galatians 2:9). He was one whom the Lord Jesus went to see after His resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:7).

    James is called "the Lord's brother" (Galatians 1:19) and is apparently the one mentioned in Mark 6:3 and Matthew 13:55 as the first of four "brethren" of Jesus who were sons of Mary. He became the presiding elder in the church.

    James was writing to his Jewish brethren who were "scattered abroad" in the dispersion. They may well have included many of those he had met on the day of Pentecost when the Holy Spirit came, and the 120 disciples (Acts)

    An incidental confirmation that the epistle of James was written by the same James who presided at the Jerusalem council is the fact that both begin with the word "greetings" (Acts 15:23), a term not used by writers of the other New Testament epistles.
     
  3. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    The Bible dictionary in my quad says "The writer is generally thought of as the Lord's brother, the son of Mary..." I always thought it was James the Apostles brother of John. Huh.
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Yes.......... "James is called "the Lord's brother" (Galatians 1:19)";)
     
  5. Kowalski

    Kowalski Active Member

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    This is the same James who fell out with Paul over the direction of the Jesus cult, Paul wanted to take the message to non-Jews, as he was astute enough to know that the Jews wern't going to buy into Jesus. James wanted non of that, he wanted to retain it's Jewishness.

    Paul left Jerusalem, James was trapped there when the City was filled with bandits, warring against one another. The Romans under Titus arrived, James was trapped, and perished in the general slaughter and carnage when the City fell. The rest is history as they say.

    K
     
  6. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    Yes, but an actual half brother. Jesus called a lot of people his brother. This one was the son of his mother, too.
     
  7. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Not according to Holy Tradition. None of the churches with an unbroken succession from the Apostles (Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox or Roman Catholic) would accept this. There are good reasons from Scripture to believe that this Tradition is correct also. If James had been the son of Mary, for instance, it would be unthinkable that Christ would have entrusted His mother to somebody else. There are actually two views on who James might have been. One is that he was an older relative of Christ, Joseph's son from a previous marriage and the other is that he was a cousin, the word brother often being used to describe more distant male relatives at the time the Gospels were written.

    James
     
  8. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    ... in fact, so incidental as to be worthless. James is widely considered pseudepigraphic.
     
  9. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Aqualung, yes I believe that James is the half brother of Jesus, Mary's son..
     
  10. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
    Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
    Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenter’s son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?" Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?" John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days." Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
    1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
    Gal. 1:19 - "But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother."
     
  11. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Not one of these quotes states that Mary was the father of James. I've already explained the use of the term brother (and in actual fact, if James was Joseph's son by a previous marriage we would call him a brother of Jesus even today). It's clear that you're trying to argue against the ever-virginity of Mary, which is common to Protestants, but not to any of the churches I referred to in my previous post. Having discarded all of your other quotes as proving anything about Mary being the mother of James (which is undeniably justified, even if he were, these Scriptures do not state it), there is only one remaining that has any bearing on the issue:

    "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."

    Unfortunately for the point you are trying to make, however, in many languages (Greek and Romanian being ones I am familiar with that exhibit this), the word 'until' does not have the same meaning as in English. If we say 'I didn't do that until 12.00', the implication is that we did do it afterwards. This is not the case in Greek at all. Saying that Mary remained virgin until Christ was born implies nothing further at all. The sentence would be rendered exactly the same whether she remained virgin afterwards or not.

    Whilst I agree that the English translation may be read as you do, the original text most certainly do not support either side of the argument. Holy Tradition states that she remained virgin and that James was not her son. Scripture also implies that Mary had no other children but Christ as she was entrusted to John after the Crucifixion. The weight of evidence, I'm afraid, is against those who would argue that James was Mary's son and Christ's younger brother.

    James
     
  12. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    a most interesting Link, Jay, Thank you for both that and the new word to my vocabulary .
     
  13. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Thats true, Mary was not the Father of James..As for the rest I have to disagree and since this thred is on the book of James maybe another thred could be started on wether Mary remained a virgin...
     
  14. Aqualung

    Aqualung Tasty

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    You have a good point there, but I really don't think it matters at all to me whether or not Mary remained a virgin after Jesus was born. The only thing that matters is that Jesus was born of a virgin.
     
  15. blueman

    blueman God's Warrior

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    This is James, the brother of Jesus and son of Mary. James, like some other members of Jesus's family, had their doubts about Jesus's claims in being the Son of the living God. It wasn't until after Jesus's resurrection that James became a believer and a fervent advocate for Christianity all the way up until his stoning. :)
     
  16. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    Do you mind my asking what evidence you have that Mary was James's mother? There's no such evidence in Scripture so I'm intrigued as to what extra-Biblical sources you are relying on for this.

    James
     
  17. Bennettresearch

    Bennettresearch Politically Incorrect

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    Hi CP,

    Really good question. I thought you would be interested in a statement made by the author of the book, "Who Wrote the New Testament?"

    "Those of the centrist tradition had to counter this gnosticizing tendency. They did so by writing treatises against the Gnostic "heresies" appealing to the "historical" Jesus of the gospels, and working hard to appropriate as many of the apostles as they could for their "orthodox" Christian teaching. They did this by writing gospels, letters, sermons, and instructions in the apostle's names."

    (Burton L. Mack)​

    Pretty interesting. He is saying that none of the Apostles wrote any of the books or letters in the Bible.​

    Craig​
     
  18. Mike182

    Mike182 Flaming Queer

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    that is indeed very interesting
     
  19. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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  20. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? ... MATTHEW 13;55

    (Mark 6:3) This is the carpenter the son of Mary and the brother of James and Joseph and Judas and Simon, is it not? And his sisters are here with us, are they not?" So they began to stumble at him

     
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