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Is homosexuality a choice?

Diederick

Diederick

Active Member
tarasan said:
... Now wether orientation is a choice, is another question, and im not sure either way, ive done some research into it and given a presentation in my bible college presenting both views, and i really dont thinks its obvious either way.
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You could just ask.

I think the question of choice is not so much a search for truth, but rather a keeping-alive of doubt. There are people in this world who need to be able to tell themselves that homosexuality is a choice, in order for their system of belief to hold up (or at least part of their system). People do silly things just to avoid the collapse of their beliefs. It's much like how it is comforting for almost anyone to think of criminals as mentally ill people, while they might be perfectly healthy for that part.

It's not facing the harsh, cold reality outside that 'evil is everywhere', in everyone. That black-and-white thinking (categorizing everything as either good or evil) might have been the biggest mistake in human history. Especially since we're only just beginning to understand what's really happening in our world.
 
Rainbow Mage

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
I haven't yet seen that the NT speaks in any clear way about homosexuality, or that it condemns it in any clear way. People can show me Romans 1, but if you read the whole chapter, it's really not about homosexuality.
 
D

Debunker

Active Member
Dan4reason said:
The question here is whether homosexuals have a sexual attraction to the same sex and no or little sexual attraction to the opposite sex. Sexual attraction like most traits in coded in DNA. I like most people claim that homosexuality has a genetic component because homosexuals do indeed have a sexual attraction to the same sex.

Some people like to claim that homosexuals are really heterosexuals who just "choose" to make out with the same sex and not have sexual relations with the same sex. This is the meaning of the question.
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I would like to agree with you but how would you explain pedophilia or sadomasochistic sex? The most basic principle in psychology is that all behavior is learned. does this help to explain anything or nothing about homosexuality?
 
M

Meow Mix

Chatte Féministe
Debunker said:
I would like to agree with you but how would you explain pedophilia or sadomasochistic sex? The most basic principle in psychology is that all behavior is learned. does this help to explain anything or nothing about homosexuality?
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I for one was attracted to girls before I knew what sexual attraction was -- how could this be a "learned" behavior? Especially when all my female friends started to talk about boys nonstop, wouldn't your notion of sexuality have meant that I'd learn heterosexuality from that? Who would choose to be different and particularly in a group that's scorned?

I don't know how to explain pedophilia or sadomasochism but that's irrelevant. Homosexuality isn't just unique to humans, you know. It seems pretty obvious that it happens naturally. In the end who cares? Even if someone does make a choice (which I'm sure maybe some people do if they're sexually malleable, which I and many other homosexuals are not) who cares? Pedophilia is immoral because it involves nonconsent. Same with beastiality. Sadomasochism isn't a moral question as far as I'm concerned unless someone goes too far. Same with homosexuality -- it's a matter between consenting adults who are attracted to one another and agree to the relationship just like heterosexuals are attracted to one another and agree with the relationship with full cognitive capacity.

We should have the right to see our loved ones in the hospital and to be considered in inheritance disputes just as much as any heterosexual lover is entitled to theirs. It isn't about the word "marriage" to me -- call it hooplyfluffybuggin if you want, I just want to know that I have the same rights to my girlfriend (recently fiance) in a hospital bed as would a male life partner.
 
Dan4reason

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
Debunker said:
I would like to agree with you but how would you explain pedophilia or sadomasochistic sex? The most basic principle in psychology is that all behavior is learned. does this help to explain anything or nothing about homosexuality?
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All behavior has a basis in learning but also in our emotional and instinctive dispositions. Sexual attraction is one of those things which is based primarily in instinct. The reason most people have sex with the opposite sex is because they are sexually attracted to them, and the reason most people do not have sex with the same sex is because they are not attracted to them.

Some people like to argue that gays are instinctively heterosexual but have simply chosen to abstain from women and make out with men, but does this seriously sound plausible? Do you know very many people who will choose to pretent like they are not attracted to the sex they are attracted to and will do it to people they are only not attracted to? We even have testimony by gays who say that they are not attracted to women, have never been, and like men instead.

Making out with someone of course requires a choice but it is not just that simple. There are emotions involved and these choices are affected quite a bit by emotion.
 
tarasan

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Diederick said:
You could just ask..
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what you believe or percieve about yourself may very well be false, i choose hard data over opinion

Diederick said:
I think the question of choice is not so much a search for truth, but rather a keeping-alive of doubt. There are people in this world who need to be able to tell themselves that homosexuality is a choice, in order for their system of belief to hold up (or at least part of their system). People do silly things just to avoid the collapse of their beliefs. It's much like how it is comforting for almost anyone to think of criminals as mentally ill people, while they might be perfectly healthy for that part.
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this doesnt show wether its a choice or not,

Diederick said:
It's not facing the harsh, cold reality outside that 'evil is everywhere', in everyone. That black-and-white thinking (categorizing everything as either good or evil) might have been the biggest mistake in human history. Especially since we're only just beginning to understand what's really happening in our world.
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again this shows nothing, I understand that some people need to hold onto it, just as much as people need to refuse it , but the reality of this changes nothing. I honestly dont care either way but i feel that to move forward people need closure on this.
 
jtartar

jtartar

Well-Known Member
MW0082 said:
It most certaintly is not a choice, and the easy way to prove this.... Who would choose to be gay? Who would choose to oppressed and beatened and murdered? No one would choose to gay, it's silly ti think otherwise.
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MW0082,
This reasoning really does not hold water. THE REASON??? People choose to be Christians, and that puts them in a position to be persecuted, in fact Jesus, and the Apostle Paul say that all Christians WILL be persecuted, 2Tim 3:12.
Jesus even stated that mankind would get so far from the truth of the Bible that they will kill God's true followers and believe that they had done a good service to God, John 16:2,3. Jesus told us that all Christians would suffer persecution, John 15:18-20. The fact is: if a person calls himself a Christian and is not suffering some sort of persecution, he is a nominal christian, not a Christian at all, Luke 6:22,23, 26, Heb 12:5-8.
 
Jacksnyte

Jacksnyte

Reverend
jtartar said:
MW0082,
This reasoning really does not hold water. THE REASON??? People choose to be Christians, and that puts them in a position to be persecuted, in fact Jesus, and the Apostle Paul say that all Christians WILL be persecuted, 2Tim 3:12.
Jesus even stated that mankind would get so far from the truth of the Bible that they will kill God's true followers and believe that they had done a good service to God, John 16:2,3. Jesus told us that all Christians would suffer persecution, John 15:18-20. The fact is: if a person calls himself a Christian and is not suffering some sort of persecution, he is a nominal christian, not a Christian at all, Luke 6:22,23, 26, Heb 12:5-8.
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Not sure about elsewhere, but in the USA, christians have been pretty much running the show for a few centuries, so I find the credibility of a claim of christians being persecuted to be shaky at best.
 
tarasan

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Jacksnyte said:
Not sure about elsewhere, but in the USA, christians have been pretty much running the show for a few centuries, so I find the credibility of a claim of christians being persecuted to be shaky at best.
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the majority of christianity is being persecuted all the time! christians have been burned alive in china, india and other countries around the world!
 
Jacksnyte

Jacksnyte

Reverend
tarasan said:
the majority of christianity is being persecuted all the time! christians have been burned alive in china, india and other countries around the world!
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And so have people of just about any other religion you can name! It's not the world hating christians, it's people who believe different things doing terrible things to each other. Usually breaking the tenets of their own faith to do it. Christianity has been a socially acceptable practice all over the majority of the globe for centuries! Christianity has dominated more than a third of the planet for hundreds of years, and yet the cries of "we are being persecuted" never cease from them. Instead of yelling because people refuse to convert, and refuse to let policy in government be decided by theology, and refuse to agree with christianity, why not try and exercise more tolerance and (heaven forbid) a little real understanding to other faiths and/or lacks of faith.
 
tarasan

tarasan

Well-Known Member
Jacksnyte said:
And so have people of just about any other religion you can name! It's not the world hating christians, it's people who believe different things doing terrible things to each other. Usually breaking the tenets of their own faith to do it. Christianity has been a socially acceptable practice all over the majority of the globe for centuries! Christianity has dominated more than a third of the planet for hundreds of years, and yet the cries of "we are being persecuted" never cease from them. Instead of yelling because people refuse to convert, and refuse to let policy in government be decided by theology, and refuse to agree with christianity, why not try and exercise more tolerance and (heaven forbid) a little real understanding to other faiths and/or lacks of faith.
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i dont know were this has come from i wsa just responding to the post that said there is not presecution in christianity today! :D and i dont see how refering to other faiths helps your side, im completely wiling to accept that, does it trivalise a religions suffering because other religions suffer? of course not!

and if you look at histroy no it hasnt been a soically acceptable things in the majority of the globe for centuries, so we are being persecuted never ceasing is actually appropiate and true.

wether we are being persecuted in the west though is another matter however, but making huge generalisations doesnt help your position and belittles the majority of those who suffer for our faith.
 
D

Duck

Well-Known Member
Meow Mix said:
It isn't about the word "marriage" to me -- call it hooplyfluffybuggin if you want, I just want to know that I have the same rights to my girlfriend (recently fiance) in a hospital bed as would a male life partner.
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I used to feel the same way. New Jersey has civil unions, theoretically with all the trimmings (legally) as marriage. There were some incidents involving companies (I can't find the links anymore, so take this for what it is worth) where the companies wouldn't provide benefits to the partner in a civil union. The justification was that a "civil union" wasn't a "marriage", so the partner in a civil union wasn't a "spouse", therefore was ineligible for the benefits supplied to a "spouse" by the company. If I recall correctly this was corrected by the government of New Jersey, but serves to illustrate the point - that "civil unions" or "hooplyfluffybuggin"s if you prefer are essentially a second class status to "marriage" and are intended to satisfy those damned annoying ******* so they will shut up and get back in the closet.
 
Corkscrew

Corkscrew

I'm ready to believe
The religious right is facing a dilemma. Why would god create individuals gay and then turn around and send them to hell for being gay? It’s just another one of those quirky little bible things that don’t make a lot of sense. But I have to hand it to them, instead of relying on the “lord works in mysterious ways” copout. They conclude that being gay must be a personal choice. This puts the responsibility right back on man. Yet, I know for a fact that being gay is not a choice. How do I know? Simple; there is no way on earth I can go out and carry on a sexual relationship with another man. I find the thought of it personally revolting. I don’t need to read a scientific study to realize that homosexuality is not a choice for me. And for those of you who think I can learn to be gay. Well, my brother is gay; how did he learn it and I did not. We grew up together sharing the same life experiences.
My friend, who is very religious and reads the bible every day, has concluded that anyone who is practicing homosexuality is going to hell; plain and simple. According to him, they have a choice to be “good” (heterosexual) or “bad” (homosexual). Yet, in order for his “homosexuality is a choice” claim to hold water, he proclaims to me that he has the ability to go out tonight and have oral sex with another man! He just chooses not to. If you knew him, you would immediately realize how ridiculous his claim is. He is straighter than a laser beam. All I can say is that I’m glad I’m not religious, having to make these idiotic claims. I think I would much rather go with the “lord works in mysterious ways” excuse.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Heterosexuals have no place talking about homosexuality as a choice.

All they can do is ask a homosexual.
 
Dan4reason

Dan4reason

Facts not Faith
tarasan said:
the majority of christianity is being persecuted all the time! christians have been burned alive in china, india and other countries around the world!
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Every religion has been persecuted by someone. Jews, atheists, Christians, Hindus, and Muslims have all been persecuted.
 
I

Ilisrum

Active Member
angellous_evangellous said:
Heterosexuals have no place talking about homosexuality as a choice.

All they can do is ask a homosexual.
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But then they might pass on the disease.:areyoucra

Seriously, I like women because I've never been attracted to guys. I couldn't be gay if I wanted to. I don't see how that's any different than men who are attracted to men or women who are attracted to women.
 
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