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Is our universe real?

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neomatrix248

Member
Penumbra said:
A 13 billion year long simulation?

I wouldn't want to be the one to fund that study.


And this is the universe they made? This one is kind of lame. If you have a simulator with capabilities of crafting a simulated universe, why not make a more interesting one?
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Who says our time would be running at the same speed as theirs? Have you ever played any of the silent hunter games? They are a submarine simulation series, and you can set the time dilation to be up to 5600x that of normal. This could be taking place within a few minutes of their time for all we know.

Why does something need to be interesting for someone to invest time and money in it? I bet a lot of research that scientists do is boring for a long time, until the conclusion of the experiment.
 
N

neomatrix248

Member
Storm said:
On what basis?
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On the basis that it would be irrational to assume that something:
1. Is possible to exist,
2. Has much reason to exist
3. Would not be difficult to bring into existence
4. That could happen during an infinite period of time

is not likely to exist
 
Storm

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Sorry, not buying it. "Possible" should never be conflated with "more likely than not."
 
Boethiah

Boethiah

Penguin
Penumbra said:
And this is the universe they made? This one is kind of lame. If you have a simulator with capabilities of crafting a simulated universe, why not make a more interesting one?
Click to expand...

I think it is pretty interesting. But I won't split hairs on whether or not this universe is interesting. :eek:

As far as the topic goes, it is certainly possible that we have been created in some sort of scientific situation, but I go to my original post saying this isn't much different than a God figure. Even with intervention (that God has been credited with doing), it is possible. Suppose these transcendent scientists altered the experiment? Suppose they decided to trash it some day for them (could be millions of years for us) and that would be our end of the world. The same comparison could be made with God. These transcendent scientists wouldn't be omnipotent, but to us they would sure seem that way.

I don't see what could be solved from debating whether or not it is true. It isn't like we can prove it. Just for funsies? :cool:
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
Flow said:
No, there is no central brain and there is no ONE dreaming. This notion stems from the feeling of Individuality. You are only in the dream because you identify with the dream, you are really not in the dream at all. We are not dreams, we are the DREAMERS. We are self-aware simply because we are. Self-Awareness is being aware of ones existence. And one's existence is the only reality. Everything is constantly moving around us, things are comming and going, thing are being created and destroied, everything is in a constant state of change. Therefore, to find peace, one needs to find that which does not change, and that is ones existence, or Consciousness. The conclusion in this, is that everything but Consciousness is changing, moving, and therefore unreal. It is unreal because that which is ultimatly real is unchanging, and unmoving, simply beacuase it is absolute.
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It also means that ulimately existence means one is completely alone, with their own consiousness. One must face death and their own end of existence alone, nobody is going with them.:sleep:
 
8

839311

Well-Known Member
neomatrix248 said:
I basically paraphrasing this from famous scientist Nick Bostrom who made this argument, but I think it's something very interesting to think about. Consider these three propositions, all of which shouldn't be too hard to agree with.

1. It is possible for an advanced civilization to run a simulation so detailed that simulated organisms don't know they are in a simulation (I could even see our technology reaching this state within the next 100-200 years).
2. If such a civilization has the capability to do this, they would have a reason to go through with it (research, fun, high school science project)
3. If such a simulation were run, it would not likely be the only one. There would probably be hundreds/thousands/millions/billions of such simulations run over the course of that civilization's life.

Now what sounds more likely.
A. Our universe is the one "real" universe, from which such simulations could be run.
B. We are one of the billions of simulations run from an alternate universe.

Most rational people would recognize that B is more likely (though I recognize that being more likely does not make it necessarily true).

I find this intriguing, because if we were living in a simulation it would have no effect on our lives whatsoever. The only thing that would change is that we would have an explanation for things such as the origin of the universe (the big bang is the start of the simulation perhaps?) and other things that science simply can't figure out (dark matter/dark energy).

What do you guys think about this?
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I think this is very possible. Likewise, I can see these types of simulations fall within the realm of human technology fairly soon. 100-200 years sounds about right for me too. Maybe sooner. Maybe later. But sooner or later, if we don't microwave our own planet with nukes or some other powerful weapons, we'll get there. Is this a simulation? Maybe. Who knows...
 
8

839311

Well-Known Member
Penumbra said:
A 13 billion year long simulation?

I wouldn't want to be the one to fund that study.

And this is the universe they made? If you have a simulator with capabilities of crafting a simulated universe, why not make a more interesting one?
Click to expand...

It is my hope that our lives here are a kind of training exercise, where we come to learn and understand all kinds of difficult realities, difficult possibilities. I think there is value in living through this 'lame' world, with all its problems, suffering, and evil. However, I hope we only have to do this once. We learn it. And then we move on in our development.

But, the possibilities that are flowing through my mind might be a lot more...ahem...well, lets go with...disappointing. For instance, say some kid created this simulation, left it running, and then forgot about it. And it has now been running on some computer somewhere in reality for trillions of years!! All this bs, evil, and suffering, might all be for nothing - or almost nothing. Maybe the kid would come back one day, say, "Oh no!! Those poor characters!!!", and be able to salvage every last sentient being to ever have lived in this simulation, and throw em all into eternal paradise! We can only hope...

Penumbra said:
This one is kind of lame.
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I agree. Its not all bad. But overall, yeah, lame.
 
xkatz

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Is our universe real?

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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
neomatrix248 said:
The point is, if you believe it's likely, then it could be some way for you to answer a few mysteries of the universe. How did the big bang start the universe from a single point? Simple, it was the start of the simulation. Why is the speed of light the upper bound for velocity? Simple, it's the maximum value a variable type used in the programming, and to make it a higher value would use more memory. The probably aren't true, obviously, but it's just a way to wrap your mind around things you may never understand otherwise.

I'm an atheist myself, but only being able to resort to science when I want to have an answer for things is frustrating. I'm not saying I believe we are living in a simulation, but it is one of the many possibilities, and that gives me some peace of mind.
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Why not just use the old stand-by Mr.God-of-Gaps? It is the same thing.
 
Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
A simulation, a dream or an illusion; these words, in such context, are nothing but another for word for reality. As reality is nothing more then the manifestation of the "simulation", the "dream" or the "illusion", and due to this, reality is without a doubt real. Regardless of the nature of the manifestation, reality is the manifestation.
 
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Jeremiah

Jeremiah

Well-Known Member
Flow said:
If you are really looking for answers, then dont look outward, that will take to long. To find all of the answers you desire, look inside. I have found that most of the answers I seek lie within the deepest core of my being. Those who know not the answers, simply havent looked inside. Those who do know the answers, have looked inside. Science will one day come to the same conclusion that the people who looked inward found. Its just that looking inward is a shorter journey to the truth then the journey outward.

That is just how I see it.
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"To find all of the answers you desire, look inside."

To maximize this effect, I recommend filling up before hand. Try books, they makes great fillers.
 
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Flow

Flow

NONE
logician said:
It also means that ulimately existence means one is completely alone, with their own consiousness. One must face death and their own end of existence alone, nobody is going with them.:sleep:
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No, you misunderstand. Ultimately, existence is one and alone, but not in some depressive state, but as in there is no seperation. And there is no "own" Consciousness, this arises from individuality. And, in case you didnt fully read what I wrote, I said that Consciousness is unchanging and therefore un-dying. So there is no end of existence.

Thats my view.
 
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