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Biblical Archaeology.

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Over the years there have been many criticisms leveled against the Bible concerning its historical reliability, criticisms that are usually based on a lack of evidence from outside sources, that could confirm the Biblical record. Since the bible is an obvious religious book, many scholars take the position that it is biased and cannot be trusted unless we have corroborating evidence from non-biblical sources, and I agree with that demand. The demand is simply, in other words, the Bible is Quilty until proven innocent.

This standard is far different from that applied to other ancient documents, even though most of those documents have a religious element. So I want to " Dig into Archaeology", and hope to show its amazing finds already recorded in our history, which I think gives the Bible reliability. The Faith the book produces is a " Mercurical thing", as are its record of Miracles", so Faith and Miracles are things which I think need not be placed alongside proven historical relevance, because most believers accept them blindly. I hold no intrest in being blind, and hold no problem with accepting what I can see and understand to be true history. Because I know the bible can stand on its own in that area as well, needing no Faith or Miracles to confirm its relevance.

I like showing the " Burial sites" of actual biblical people that we have found. That is extremely relevant in my view. If the person didnot exist, there would be no burial site. Jesus himself has two sites claiming to be the location of his tomb. The Church of the Holy Sepulchre and the Garden Tomb. The Garden tomb, identified in the late 1800's, lacks the historical credibility of the Sepulchre, which is located in the old city of Jerusalem. In the 4th century, Constantine sopposedly located the tomb site beneath a second century Roman temple. He constructed a church over it. This church has been restored and maintained ever since. I don't see Constantine as the kind of man who would have done this to a forgery.

Jesus lived and preached in Jerusalem, we still to this day have a real city of Jerusalem, and in it, two possible tomb sites, one of which I think is real.

But what other burial sites have been found?

And I want to go into that.

Peace.
 

DeitySlayer

President of Chindia
Mickiel, if I may point out, confirming the geographical locations and persons in the Bible does not confirm the supernatural claims attached to them. For example, I could point towards a piece of Norse literature that says that on a certain year there were terrible storms that caused such-and-such a cliff to collapse, and the storm was because Thor was angry. Indeed, we could find the cliff and calculate upon which year it did collapse, and thus confirm the geographical, physical aspect of the story. However, it is impossible to confirm that the storm was because 'Thor was angry'. Similarly, although you can provide proof of a great cataclysm at Sodom and Gomorrah, you cannot show any evidence as to the cause of the storm; i.e. that 'God dunnit'
 

Smoke

Done here.
I don't know if the Holy Sepulchre is the authentic site of the tomb of Jesus, but it certainly has a more credible claim than the Garden Tomb.

I'm not sure about definitely identified tombs, but I think the family tomb of Caiaphas can reasonably be assumed to belong to the family of the biblical Caiaphas.

Several bullae -- seal impressions -- have been found that apparently belonged to people in the Bible. The most notable one I can think of offhand is Baruch.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Mickiel, if I may point out, confirming the geographical locations and persons in the Bible does not confirm the supernatural claims attached to them. For example, I could point towards a piece of Norse literature that says that on a certain year there were terrible storms that caused such-and-such a cliff to collapse, and the storm was because Thor was angry. Indeed, we could find the cliff and calculate upon which year it did collapse, and thus confirm the geographical, physical aspect of the story. However, it is impossible to confirm that the storm was because 'Thor was angry'. Similarly, although you can provide proof of a great cataclysm at Sodom and Gomorrah, you cannot show any evidence as to the cause of the storm; i.e. that 'God dunnit'


I hold no intrest in the use of Myths to support points, I don't use such analogy. What I am using, and will use, are all confirmed finds in our history. Such as the " Ossuary of Caiaphas, the High Priest", who actually confronted Christ. A stunning find, he was High Priest for 18 years, A.D. 18-36, and this is recorded history. He most likely gained the position by marrying the daughter of " Annas", head of a powerful high-priestly clan, also recorded in the bible, John 18:13. This man met with and condemned Jesus, John 11:50, actually telling Jesus that only " One man should die", rather than a whole nation perish.

Jesus was taken to this mans actual house, and held overnight, Luke 22:63-65. He was beaten the next mourning and handed overto " Pilate", another historical figure, just as real as Caiaphas was.

The Caiaphas family tomb was accidently discovered by workers constructing a road in a park just south of the old city of Jerusalem. The tomb was examined and 12 Ossuaries, ( Limestone Bone Boxes) were found, containing the actual remains of " 63" individuals. The most bueatiful of them all, was the one with the full name of " Joseph son of Caiaphas". That was the full name of the Priest who arrested Jesus, and as documented by " Josephus"- ( Antiquities 18:,2, 2:4,3.)

They used modern technology to confirm the bones of a 60 year old man, and provided for the world the actual physical remains of an individual named in the bible!

Stunning, remarable Evidence!

Peace.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
I don't know if the Holy Sepulchre is the authentic site of the tomb of Jesus, but it certainly has a more credible claim than the Garden Tomb.

I'm not sure about definitely identified tombs, but I think the family tomb of Caiaphas can reasonably be assumed to belong to the family of the biblical Caiaphas.

Several bullae -- seal impressions -- have been found that apparently belonged to people in the Bible. The most notable one I can think of offhand is Baruch.


Well I agree, this is actual human history, not a " Myth."

The man " Caesar Augustus", was not a myth, he was a great politician and administrator, he ruled the Roman Empire from 27 B.C-A.D. 14. And listen, much of the human " Calenders" that measure time in our history, has come from the Bible, that too just yet another historical fact, its no myth!

It was Augustus who issued the " Census" decree that brought Mary and Joseph to Bethlehem, where Jesus was born. We still have census until this day, and still have the city of Bethlehem, both historical fact! Facts that we STILL have! Augustus errected for himself a grand mausoleum in Rome, on the east bank of the Tiber River. The remains STILL exist to this day, in the middle of the " Piazza Augusto Imperatore!"

Again, stunning historical Archaeological Evidence.

And we still have this evidence.

Peace.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
The Bible says that Sarah, Abraham, Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob were buried in Hebron, in a cave called the cave of " Machpelah", purchased by Abraham ( Gen. 23.) This cave is located below the " Haram el-Khalil" ( Sacred precint of the friend of the merciful one, God), still in Hebron today, its a muslim mosque. You know the American Atheist, or really any foolish skeptical Atheist, are not allowed in this authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs, in fact would be at risk of being killed.

They allowed the " Augustine Canons" to explore the cave in 1119, and the secret claim is that they found the actual bones of the Patriachs, but allow no outside access.

I can't say I blame them, for keeping blasphemers out of this place. You know, people who spit on your history.

Peace.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
And L. Frank Baum says that Dorothy and Tots lived in Kansas. Kansas is located just south of Nebraska, and ...

mickiel, you're embarrassing yourself ...
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
What other graves have we found of Biblical people? Well there are many, I will list each one, but mind you, Archaeologist are still unearthing them. Peeling the skin off of an Atheist Earth. Cyrus the Great is an actual historical figure, as was Pilate, both recorded in history. Cyrus ruled the " Persian Empire" from 559-530 B.C. B.C., means before Christ birth, its a standard accepted historical way of measuring human time in history. We STILL do it until this day! Still use it, thats just a fact in history.

Cyrus is best known for his capture of " Babylon" in 539 B.C. Already in the 8th century B.C. Isaiah predicted this defeat ( Is. 45:1-3) and went on to say that Cyrus would " Set my exiles free", 45:13. That Cyrus released the Jewish exiles from Babylon is not only documented in the Bible, 2Chron. 36:22-23;Ezra 1:2-4, but also given in the Cyrus Cylinder.

We have this historical and biblical mans tomb.

We got the evidence, we got the history, and we STILL have the bible.

Peace.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
And L. Frank Baum says that Dorothy and Tots lived in Kansas. Kansas is located just south of Nebraska, and ...

mickiel, you're embarrassing yourself ...


I am using and providing historical facts, you are using and providing myths in analogys.

You are really the embarrasment, that is, to the educated eye.

And I expect this to continue, because you are outclassed by the evidence of facts, and must resort to myths. And I will continue to point out Atheist doing this.

Peace.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
The Bible says that Sarah, Abraham, Isaac, Rebekah, Leah and Jacob were buried in Hebron, in a cave called the cave of " Machpelah", purchased by Abraham ( Gen. 23.) This cave is located below the " Haram el-Khalil" ( Sacred precint of the friend of the merciful one, God), still in Hebron today, its a muslim mosque. You know the American Atheist, or really any foolish skeptical Atheist, are not allowed in this authentic location of the burial place of the Patriarchs, in fact would be at risk of being killed.

Alright that's it. Abraham definitely did NOT exist. Who in their right mind "purchases" a cave? Do you have any idea how much it costs alone to rent one?!?!?
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Alright that's it. Abraham definitely did NOT exist. Who in their right mind "purchases" a cave? Do you have any idea how much it costs alone to rent one?!?!?


Again the continous use of sarcasim or myths to respond to me. Because thats really all you have.

Others have allowed this illusion to enter into debate, but I am not like others. I can see its transparency, I see through it.

And I will expose it, as I continue to expose the truth.

Peace.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Again the continous use of sarcasim or myths to respond to me. Because thats really all you have.

Others have allowed this illusion to enter into debate, but I am not like others. I can see its transparency, I see through it.

And I will expose it, as I continue to expose the truth.

Peace.

How deep of you to state the obvious! Thank you!
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Come Atheist , come. I have you.

I know you.

Come on out of the woodwork, your continual blindness to the truth, I will show that to be proof of God.

Just not today. Today, its Archaeology.

Peace.
 

xkatz

Well-Known Member
Come Atheist , come. I have you.

I know you.

Come on out of the woodwork, your continual blindness to the truth, I will show that to be proof of God.

Just not today. Today, its Archaeology.

Peace.

I believe in God already, you have already been defeated... Mwuhahahahaha!!!1

I am victorious!!!


 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
And L. Frank Baum says that Dorothy and Tots lived in Kansas. Kansas is located just south of Nebraska, and ...

mickiel, you're embarrassing yourself ...


Whats it feel like Jayhawker, to know that I have you, and have always had you? Whats it feel like, to know there is someone that you cannot overpower, cannot embarass, cannot cause to go away whipped by your beliefs?

Its magical Jay, and its only just begun. But you were part of its development.

Peace.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
I believe in God already, you have already been defeated... Mwuhahahahaha!!!1

I am victorious!!!


Then I honor the defeat by understanding that you have never spoken to me, and never will again.

Take your victory with you, and leave me in peace.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
Just thought I would mention this. The census that you talk about actually is evidence against the birth story of Jesus. There are actually a variety of reasons why. The first is the year that it took place. It was around 6 C.E., long after Herod the Great was dead. The reason this is important is because Jesus was suppose to have been born around the time of Herod the Great. The two dates simply don't match up.

More so though, Jesus was from Nazareth, which was in Galilee, which was under a client rulership. This is important for the reason that Nazareth would thus not have been included in the census. So Mary and Joseph would have had no reason to participate in the census and thus have no reason to go to Bethlehem.

Finally, there was no reason that Mary and Joseph would have had to go to Bethlehem. It would have actually been ridiculous for them to go back to the home of their fathers as it would have been a nightmare. It would have taken too long, there would have been too much trouble, and it simply was not logical. More so, there is no evidence that was ever the case. So looking at the historical record, the story of Joseph and Mary going to Bethlehem is actually incorrect.

Also, the cave of Abraham does not prove that Abraham existed. Actually, there is no historical evidence that Abraham existed. The fact that that particular cave exists simply is evidence that it existed during the time in which the Old Testament was being written. Without additional evidence, it simply can not be used as evidence that Abraham existed.

Looking at the archeology, we can get an idea of history, and some evidence of ideas in the Bible; however, archeology also shows that a lot of the ideas in the Bible simply are untrue.
 

Smoke

Done here.
What other graves have we found of Biblical people? Well there are many, I will list each one, but mind you, Archaeologist are still unearthing them. Peeling the skin off of an Atheist Earth. Cyrus the Great is an actual historical figure, as was Pilate, both recorded in history. Cyrus ruled the " Persian Empire" from 559-530 B.C. B.C., means before Christ birth, its a standard accepted historical way of measuring human time in history. We STILL do it until this day! Still use it, thats just a fact in history.

Cyrus is best known for his capture of " Babylon" in 539 B.C. Already in the 8th century B.C. Isaiah predicted this defeat ( Is. 45:1-3) and went on to say that Cyrus would " Set my exiles free", 45:13. That Cyrus released the Jewish exiles from Babylon is not only documented in the Bible, 2Chron. 36:22-23;Ezra 1:2-4, but also given in the Cyrus Cylinder.

We have this historical and biblical mans tomb.

We got the evidence, we got the history, and we STILL have the bible.

Peace.
Well, I don't call that much in the way of evidence. We can show that Napoleon existed, but that doesn't mean The Count of Monte Cristo is factual.
 

mickiel

Well-Known Member
Just thought I would mention this. The census that you talk about actually is evidence against the birth story of Jesus. There are actually a variety of reasons why. The first is the year that it took place. It was around 6 C.E., long after Herod the Great was dead. The reason this is important is because Jesus was suppose to have been born around the time of Herod the Great. The two dates simply don't match up.
quote]


Not if your using the date of Herod the Greats death, as being that of his father, " Herod the Great." His Father was a Herod the Great.

Peace.
 
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