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Professor said:
I did hear this one before. Actually, I think it was a different thread here.
I think the word or words that the professor was looking for are pharmakos or pharmakeutikos. An interesting article about the history of this is here.Luke Wolf said:
I think you are refereing to Laurie Cabot, but I'm not sure. I believe that a lot of Wiccans credit Gerald Gardner and Robert Cochrane with the birth of modern witchcraft back in the early 50's and 60's.Professor said:
And what about the Goddess ?
But then , that is only my opinion .Professor said:Brothers and Sisters,
I appreciate and respect that you are attempting to use logic to explain a non-logical (intuitive) worldview (that being witchcraft). It is somewhat hypocritical but Ill go with it.
Actually I'm trying to use logic to seperate the fact from the crap ...
But again, ever since Cobott and the Witches League of Public Awareness (WLPA headed up by the Governor Michael Dukakis) have tried to put a pretty Westernized slant on Witchcraft, you up and coming low grades are swallowing it like they cannot in anyway be wrong.
IMHO politics usually is ... well just just say that it is one sided at best . But I agree that a PR program has been in effect . On both sides of the fence .
The WLPA and some other groups were outraged during the Witchcraft murders/sacrifices in the late 1980s. Cobott tried to sue the press for libel because it was bad PR.
Again , American politics , which I know little about . But didn't he run agaisnt some guy from Texas ?
Such as the 8 fold path of Witchcraft. Though you may not be part of the Alexandrian Rite, I would think you would respect Gerald Gardner since he is the Father of Modern Wicca/Witchcraft: In the Alexandrian Book of Shadows there is the list of the 8 fold path.
1) Trance
2) Drugs, Wine, etc
3) Music, Dance
4) Rites, Spells, Incantations
5) The Great Rite (ritual sex)
6) Scourging
7) The Cords (ceremonial binding)
8) Mediation
Granted , Gardener is the " Father of Modern Witchcraft ", he is far from being the only leader . Nor is he the last word in what is considered Witchcraft today . So , what is the importance of this " 8 fold path " ? And how is it apllied ? I mean , Christians practice ritual " eating of the flesh " , even though they never actually eat human flesh .
There so much evil here I dont know where to start. Two witches that pissed off the Witches for revealing all that goes on in various grades were: Gavin and Yvone Front (THE WITCHS BIBLE). I encourage you all to check this out if you havent already and read it.
There has been many people who have upset others by having different views .
The term White Witch is a 17th century term and modern witchcraft today CANNOT be traced back beyond the 14-15th century A.D. (See Henry Leas work on the History of Witchcraft).
Personally , I don't think that some types of Witchcraft can be traced back that far , although parts can be traced back much farther . BTW most " Witchs " no longer use the term " White Witch ", as far as I can tell . Outside of Hollywood that is .
Not to mention that Dr. Margaret Murray (The Gods of the Witches) ADMITS that the black goat (which she related to as the concept of the devil) was worshipped often in older witchcraft.
Now this is interesting . You say that Witchcraft only goes back a few hundred years , and yet Murray calls it a " Pre-Christian Relegion "??? She also links the Horned God to the Paleolithic Period , long before there was any concept of the devil .
As I promised, the word Witch (I study languages) is from the Old English wicce (Wicca comes from this word as well). It means to bend. It later became to mean Wicked or Wizard. The Cobott goons want to say it originally meant a Wise One but this is not the case in terms of etymology. The very word Witch (historically) is a bent wicked person.
I believe , but could be wrong here , the the word wicce is the female version of wicca , and has orginions in the Germanic language . And as with many words , it has had many different meaning over the years .
Though I know not all witches practice magic(k), most dictionaries and encyclopedias contribute witchcraft with black magic or the black art.
Yes , my point . " Witchs " can be found in just about every culture in history , if not all . Gardner took the term , but didn't invent it . So he also got stuck with anything that goes along with that word . The good and the bad .
My point is that historically it has meant evil. Thus logically what it worships (the ultimate source god) is evil as well.
No . Historically , in the Christian society , it has meant evil . And in Christian society any God other then the Christian God has been considered evil .
_________________________________________________
The church of Satan has always referred to its female members as Witches (see his book on the Satanic Witch). Crowleys Aiwaas in some way or the other has been passed down among many Witches. Perhaps yourself without knowing it (Im speaking of sexually obviously.)
Again , many people have been called witchs . But I am interested in your connection between Crowley and the Church of Satan . Of course Crowley had a great infuence on many , and I have no doubt on the Church of Satan , but I don't follow your connection here ??
And finally, my very own rare and signed copy of : Missa Niger by Aubrey Melech has a section on the Witches Sabbat and even has a picture/plate of two witches during the Black Mass prepared to sacrifice the baby. Melech documents this. And of course Dr. Murray (whom you witches love) admits that the eating of babies flesh was common among you witches for immortality.
It appears that you are using a very liberal defination of the term " witch " here . Now I'm not going to get into Satanism here .
Daemon est Deus Inversus
In the higher levels, this is the face of Witchcraft. History is on my side and evil glares from its pages for those who are brave enough to admit it.
And for those even braver , they may dare question the authority of a one-side history and those who wrote it .
The Professor
Actually, some of the Green Man images have antlers, but that's not the same as horns anyway.kreeden said:I have NEVER heard any Witch say that they worship anything like a " devil type creature ". Where are you getting this ? The Horned One has horns , and that is about as close as it gets . The Green Man doesn't even have horns .
History is on your side? Well then, if history is on your side...but hang on, who were the people who traditionally recorded history (especially in the 16's and 17's as you've been quoting)? Wasn't it the church who recorded history, them being the only people who could string a written sentence together? Well then, that's a gaurantee of an unbiased and objective veiwpoint. Seems Professor has us all dead to rights. No arguing with something the church has to say about a religious practice that isn't it's own.Professor said:
Heya Professor, I apologise but I have not seen a single quotation from either of these people in your posts. Did you not put quotation marks around them because I couldn't find them? Also how do you reconcile the idea that so few people were able to influence so many given the decentralised nature of modern witchcraft/Wicca or whatever you wish to call it.
LaVey does not recognise a deity of any kind. Laveyan Satanism and the Church of Satan are fully atheist. Therefore, you need to make some kind of link between Lavey and evil before the chain of "Witch to Lavey to Evil" works. You have only demonstrated the first part of this chain. Don't assume a moral objectivity that you have neither established fully nor justified.
That is cool but many, many modern witches neither claim nor have any affiliation with the type of beliefs that existed in Wicca or any form of witchcraft more than 30 years ago. Religions evolve.
