Understanding the holy scriptures is impossible unless God gives you the interpretation

[Ben Dhyan]

Basically I agree with you, but I don't think that one's mind must be free of thought to apprehend spiritual reality. The two can be present simultaneously.

Thinking involves conceptualization which implies duality, the concept and the reality the concept represents. Still mind apprehension of reality is just that, reality is present directly without a conceptual representation in its place, which implies non-duality. God is non-dual.

But yes, I agree that some thoughts can be helpful filling in the dots, essential even initially.

 

[shunyadragon]

Your first and last sentences clearly show that you have no understanding of the Bible: it's contents or meaning. I feel sorry for you.

Failure to respond to my posts and dodging my question clearly represents your agenda of only those that believe as you do understand anything.

I believe your fundamentalist literal view of the Pentateuch is ccnfirmed by our statement calling it "God's written word."

 

[2ndpillar]

Yes the authors of gospels are unknown and yes they were progressively edited and redacted, I am not defending the gospels as accurate. Nonetheless the authors ad th eChurch Fathers believed the Pentateuch was a literal hisotry.

And who are these "eChurch Fathers"? Where they the "scribes" who made a lie out of the LAW" (Jeremiah 8:8). Or were they "our fathers" who "inherited nothing but falsehoods" (Jeremiah 16:19)? Did your father of science, Newton, think that the heavens were created on a "second day" comprised of 24 hours. Or did he think like Psalms 90:4, that a day with God is more than 24 hours, and as with the millennium paralleling the days of the week, the day of rest will be a 1000 years. As Isaiah said in Isaiah 6:9, only those with eyes to see will see. As for the rest, Yeshua said he was glad that the so called intelligent (educated) and those who think they are wise, were revealed nothing (Matthew 11:25).

 

[2ndpillar]

We are not at present dealing with the Koran, but yes there are similar issues dating the texts of the Koran,

The earliest dating of a scrap of the Koran was sourced from Yemen, and was mid 6th century, and pre Koran, and consisted of a partial writing that was bleached out and written over. As for a full preserved copy, that would be around the 8th century, with the number of Surahs/chapters, varying, from Islam leader to leader. The early script should have been without vowels or dots, yet the later versions had both, which can be a large source of variations, which called for the early and later burning and drowning of existing copies. You still wind up with around 100 different variations of the Koran. They have canonized one in the 20th century, but all 100 variations are used, depending on the locality. The initial problem was supposedly exposed by the memorized versions supposedly being diverse.

 

[Ajax]

Have you not heard of meditation as it pertains to stilling the mind? Only when the mind is free from thought will reality be present without some mental conceptual interpretation in its place. Thinking is synonymous with duality, still mind meditation is synonymous with non-duality. God is non-dual.

Your brain is working continuously and pass information to you all the time. The only time it stops is when you are dead or under anesthesia when most cortical-evoked responses are reduced, but not fully blocked. Mind is the energy of the brain.

 

[jimb]

Failure to respond to my posts and dodging my question clearly represents your agenda of only those that believe as you do understand anything.

I believe your fundamentalist literal view of the Pentateuch is ccnfirmed by our statement calling it "God's written word."

That's simply your opinion. I don't care at all what you think of my "agenda". You clearly show that you do not understand the Bible.

 

[shunyadragon]

That's simply your opinion. I don't care at all what you think of my "agenda". You clearly show that you do not understand the Bible.

The bottom line . . .
Failure to respond to my posts and dodging my question clearly represents your agenda of only those that believe as you do understand anything.

I believe your fundamentalist literal view of the Pentateuch is ccnfirmed by our statement calling it "God's written word."

 

[shunyadragon]

The earliest dating of a scrap of the Koran was sourced from Yemen, and was mid 6th century, and pre Koran, and consisted of a partial writing that was bleached out and written over. As for a full preserved copy, that would be around the 8th century, with the number of Surahs/chapters, varying, from Islam leader to leader. The early script should have been without vowels or dots, yet the later versions had both, which can be a large source of variations, which called for the early and later burning and drowning of existing copies. You still wind up with around 100 different variations of the Koran. They have canonized one in the 20th century, but all 100 variations are used, depending on the locality. The initial problem was supposedly exposed by the memorized versions supposedly being diverse.

Nor sure where you are going with this. I am not a Muslim and as far as I am concerned ALL ancient scriptures lack provenance to make the claims the believers make including your claims.

 

[shunyadragon]

Thinking involves conceptualization which implies duality, the concept and the reality the concept represents. Still mind apprehension of reality is just that, reality is present directly without a conceptual representation in its place, which implies non-duality. God is non-dual.

But yes, I agree that some thoughts can be helpful filling in the dots, essential even initially.

I do not believe that "Thinking involves conceptualization which implies duality," Needs more explanation.

Thinking simply is the function of a conscious brain.

 

[jimb]

The bottom line . . .
Failure to respond to my posts and dodging my question clearly represents your agenda of only those that believe as you do understand anything.

I believe your fundamentalist literal view of the Pentateuch is ccnfirmed by our statement calling it "God's written word."

I don't care.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Your brain is working continuously and pass information to you all the time. The only time it stops is when you are dead or under anesthesia when most cortical-evoked responses are reduced, but not fully blocked. Mind is the energy of the brain.

The brain is working all the time but it is not thinking all the time. You must be aware of brain waves, beta waves are present in the awake thinking state, but not in the theta dream state and deep meditative state. And the brain is certainly not thinking in the Delta wave state.

 

[2ndpillar]

Nor sure where you are going with this. I am not a Muslim and as far as I am concerned ALL ancient scriptures lack provenance to make the claims the believers make including your claims.

What are my claims?

 

[shunyadragon]

What are my claims?

Any religious claims as to what you believe concerning God and what you call Yeshua. There is a lack of provence in scripture to support any of the variations of Judaism, Islam and Christianity. All these beliefs only have a basis in "faith" and not a consistent foundation in scripture.

 

[shunyadragon]

I don't care.

That is the obvious only possible response when you are unable respond to my posts and specific questions,

The bottom line . . .
Failure to respond to my posts and dodging my question clearly represents your agenda of only those that believe as you do understand anything.

I believe your fundamentalist literal view of the Pentateuch is ccnfirmed by our statement calling it "God's written word."

 

[shunyadragon]

The brain is working all the time but it is not thinking all the time. You must be aware of brain waves, beta waves are present in the awake thinking state, but not in the theta dream state and deep meditative state. And the brain is certainly not thinking in the Delta wave state.

How does your view justify duality?

 

[Ajax]

The brain is working all the time but it is not thinking all the time. You must be aware of brain waves, beta waves are present in the awake thinking state, but not in the theta dream state and deep meditative state. And the brain is certainly not thinking in the Delta wave state.

So you claim that Spiritual discernment, could happen only when we are falling asleep or when we are deeply asleep?
Because brain wave patterns are used to monitor sleep stages. When we fall asleep we go from drowsy, light attention that’s easily roused (alpha), to being relaxed and no longer alert (theta), to being deeply asleep (delta). In the theta wave state, we can still have thoughts. Scientists also claim we could also have thoughts in delta state. However this is not what I asked you.
My main question was, how can one be certain that Spiritual discernment from God exists/intervenes and how does one know that it has actually arisen. Does one wake up in the morning and suddenly has the "understanding"?

 

[shunyadragon]

So you claim that Spiritual discernment, could happen only when we are falling asleep or when we are deeply asleep?
Because brain wave patterns are used to monitor sleep stages. When we fall asleep we go from drowsy, light attention that’s easily roused (alpha), to being relaxed and no longer alert (theta), to being deeply asleep (delta). In the theta wave state, we can still have thoughts. Scientists also claim we could also have thoughts in delta state. However this is not what I asked you.
My main question was, how can one be certain that Spiritual discernment from God exists/intervenes and how does one know that it has actually arisen. Does one wake up in the morning and suddenly has the "understanding"?

I do not believe there is a potential spiritual discernment nor independent understanding has any relationship to meditation. There is too much inconsistency in the claims of spiritual discernment to relate it to any particular thinking, non-thinking, meditation, or by the way Christians often claim of spiritual discernment based on scripture. I hear many claims, because I do this and not this, or believe this and not this one has spiritual discernment.

I have a belief in the possibility of a degree of spiritual discernment based on detachment from selective belief in this or that, and believing in a more universalist perspective, but this is also subjective. It is more a way of thinking and not thinking or no-thinking as in meditation.

More on this may follow.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I do not believe that "Thinking involves conceptualization which implies duality," Needs more explanation.

Thinking simply is the function of a conscious brain.

Ok, so God is all there is, and you are an expression of God. So when the natural man thinks of God, they think of God as being separate from themself. Iow, there is duality, there is God and there is the thinker of God. However the truly religious man does not think of God, but rather still their mind so that the personal 'I' does not arise and there is only God/divine spirit present, that is non-duality. Thinking is fine, but in religion practice thinking needs to be transcended so thoughts do not arise.

 

[shunyadragon]

So you claim that Spiritual discernment, could happen only when we are falling asleep or when we are deeply asleep?
Because brain wave patterns are used to monitor sleep stages. When we fall asleep we go from drowsy, light attention that’s easily roused (alpha), to being relaxed and no longer alert (theta), to being deeply asleep (delta). In the theta wave state, we can still have thoughts. Scientists also claim we could also have thoughts in delta state. However this is not what I asked you.
My main question was, how can one be certain that Spiritual discernment from God exists/intervenes and how does one know that it has actually arisen. Does one wake up in the morning and suddenly has the "understanding"?

I do not believe there is a potential spiritual discernment or independent understanding based on any relationship to meditation. There is too much inconsistency in the claims of spiritual discernment to relate it to any particular thinking, non-thinking, meditation, or by the way Christians often claim of spiritual discernment based on scripture. I hear many claims, because I do this and not this, or believe this and not this one has spiritual discernment.

I have a belief in the possibility of a degree of spiritual discernment based on detachment from selective belief in this or that, or doing this or that, and believing in a more universalist perspective, but this is also subjective. It is more a way of thinking and not thinking or no-thinking as in meditation.

I do advocate various variations of meditation, but I believe it should not have any claims especially spiritual discernment.

More on this may follow.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

So you claim that Spiritual discernment, could happen only when we are falling asleep or when we are deeply asleep?
Because brain wave patterns are used to monitor sleep stages. When we fall asleep we go from drowsy, light attention that’s easily roused (alpha), to being relaxed and no longer alert (theta), to being deeply asleep (delta). In the theta wave state, we can still have thoughts. Scientists also claim we could also have thoughts in delta state. However this is not what I asked you.
My main question was, how can one be certain that Spiritual discernment from God exists/intervenes and how does one know that it has actually arisen. Does one wake up in the morning and suddenly has the "understanding"?

No, when you are in still mind meditation, the brain is not thinking, it may be in the theta brain wave state, or even delta, but the mediator is not asleep.
First you must learn to still your mind, until you are able to do that, any description of spiritual experience would not be recognized by you. And btw, it may take a couple of years or more to be able to realize the still mind state.