Vatican Blasts Trans Surgery, Surogacy, Etc

[Revoltingest]

It becomes obvious as they speak. It doesn't address the threats of an angry god who's looking for an excuse to damn us.

I observe a simplistic scriptural view
that's threatened by a reality far more
complex than what they believe and need.

 

[ppp]

That is not true.
And Dr. Phil? An unethical quack with no license to practice? That's Hollywood garbage, not evidence.

The fact of the matter is that @IndigoChild5559 does not care where their quotes come from, or that the claims they spread are irresponsible, manipulative and malicious twaddle.

The question is always, What is the consensus of the world's major relevant scientific bodies. Yet some how @Brian2 and @IndigoChild5559 only cite news rags and political bodies. They do not care about what the science supports. They only care about achieving their political and/or religious ends thru propaganda, primarily in the form of yellow journalism.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

This is why the emphasis on puberty blockers. That's reversible for those who decide not to go further. But for those that do medically transition they can switch to hormones and develop a bodythat more resembles their identitified sex.

I think that's very well said. It doesn't do permanent anything -- but allows some time for more thought, and more mature thought. That's important!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is not true.
And Dr. Phil? An unethical quack with no license to practice? That's Hollywood garbage, not evidence.

Perhaps you are just afraid to listen to the testimony of a transgender woman who actually worked at one of these clinics. I don't know. But I know that as long as you keep your head in the sand, you are contributing to a problem, and I'm really very sad about that, because I do care about trans people, and want the discussion based on facts.

 

[Revoltingest]

Perhaps you are just afraid to listen to the testimony of a transgender woman who actually worked at one of these clinics. I don't know. But I know that as long as you keep your head in the sand, you are contributing to a problem, and I'm really very sad about that, because I do care about trans people, and want the discussion based on facts.

Perhaps you should listen to @Shadow Wolf.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Perhaps you should listen to @Shadow Wolf.

Not sure why you think I don't. I have great repect for Shadow Wolf

 

[Revoltingest]

Not sure why you think I don't. I have great repect for Shadow Wolf

Great. But I advise more consideration
of her history, process, and knowledge.
You're not as far apart as it might seem.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

You're not as far apart as it might seem.

Oh I agree with this.

 

[Heyo]

Not sure why you think I don't. I have great repect for Shadow Wolf

But not for her knowledge and informed opinion.
When she tells you that the sources you have based your opinion on are rubbish, that's when you should listen and respect.

Perhaps you are just afraid to listen to the testimony of a transgender woman who actually worked at one of these clinics.

That doesn't sound like respecting her expertise.

 

[Yerda]

From article in OP:

ROME (AP) — An international campaign to ban surrogacy received a strong endorsement Friday from the Vatican, with a top official calling for a broad-based alliance to stop the “commercialization of life.”

I kinda expected the anti-trans stuff. I had no idea that surrogacy had strong opposition.

Maurel was born in the U.S. in 1991 via surrogacy and attributes a lifetime of mental health issues to the “trauma of abandonment” she says she experienced at birth. She says she was separated from her biological mother and given to parents who had contracted with an agency in Kentucky after experiencing infertility problems when they tried to have children in their late 40s.

This sounds like mental illness, not a policy position.

 

[Yerda]

Wow, y'all are letting the anti-Catholicism flow in this thread. This really doesn't matter unless you're a Catholic. I was and I left over my disagreements with its teachings. You're not going to see me blow a gasket because they still uphold those teachings. This literally is nothing new. Surrogacy, IVF and sex changes have never been permissable under Catholic teaching. I realize there wasn't a specific teaching about transgender/transsexual people but you couldn't seriously expect them to approve of it.

The Church is possibly the most evil organisation that has ever existed. We have every right to expect the people pretending they are reps of an all loving God to not be evil.

 

[Brian2]

That is ages 10 to 99, so not kids like you focus on. And those who are specifically reporting to a general healthcare practitioner with it. That doesn't mean more people are identifying as trans. Lots of people have identified but never come out of the closet.

Just take your head out of the sand and type in "Recent increase in young people with gender dysporia" and you will find quite a few articles like this one.

Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.

About 42,000 U.S. children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 2021, nearly triple the number in 2017, a unique data analysis for Reuters found.

www.reuters.com

The facts are not biased religious propaganda, but you and @ppp and others seem closed off to these facts.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Perhaps you are just afraid to listen to the testimony of a transgender woman who actually worked at one of these clinics. I don't know. But I know that as long as you keep your head in the sand, you are contributing to a problem, and I'm really very sad about that, because I do care about trans people, and want the discussion based on facts.

You're evidence is from a quack who brought a Focus on the Family quack on his show years ago to tell the mom of a trans girl she's too involved with her child's life. The therapist she brought put the FotF quack on blast. "How dare you" is how he denounced the quack.
And do tell me what goes on in those centers. I get treated at the one in LA. In fact, someone tried to say similar a few years back amd it angered people because that wasn't what was actually going on amd this individual didn't even clinically work with the patients to determine a treatment plan or know the details in them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think that's very well said. It doesn't do permanent anything -- but allows some time for more thought, and more mature thought. That's important!

It's what many here and out in the wild simply refuse to acknowledge. They learned a few terms and nothing more and now masquerade as knowledgeable on the subject.
It's like YECs who says evolution is a theory and insisting they know about biology and science and while it obvious they in fact do not.

 

[Brian2]

I think that's very well said. It doesn't do permanent anything -- but allows some time for more thought, and more mature thought. That's important!

I would think that not going through puberty probably blocks some of the maturing that would have happened by going through it, but maybe not.
However looking at the countries that are back pedaling on puberty blockers and heading towards psychological approaches, because of potential long term harm from puberty blockers and the lack of research into the bad side effects etc. I would suggest that the idea that it does not do permanent harm is something you would like to believe and so believe it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Just take your head out of the sand and type in "Recent increase in young people with gender dysporia" and you will find quite a few articles like this one.

Number of transgender children seeking treatment surges in U.S.

About 42,000 U.S. children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria in 2021, nearly triple the number in 2017, a unique data analysis for Reuters found.

www.reuters.com

The facts are not biased religious propaganda, but you and @ppp and others seem closed off to these facts.

That's still not saying more are identifying as trans.
How about instead of telling me to get my head out of the sand you learn how to interpret data correctly because you obviously don't.
It's like the bogus claims there's more gays, as we saw especially as same sex marriages became to be legalized. No, living in a more tolerant world where more people feel safe enough to step out if the closet isn't creating more gays. But still conservatives harped on about how it's a fad and kids are doing it to be cool.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

And do tell me what goes on in those centers.

I didn't work there, so I'm not a source. You have the opportunity to listen to someone who actually did work there. Whether or not you listen to her, is entirely up to you. Be well, my friend.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

But not for her knowledge and informed opinion.
When she tells you that the sources you have based your opinion on are rubbish, that's when you should listen and respect.

That doesn't sound like respecting her expertise.

There is an awful lot she has to say that I respect. She of course has personal experience with this, which is important, and I consider it of great value. But there are other experts who are saying something different, and other people who similarly have experience who are saying something different, and I listen to them too.

 

[ppp]

Perhaps you are just afraid to listen to the testimony of a transgender woman who actually worked at one of these clinics. I don't know. But I know that as long as you keep your head in the sand, you are contributing to a problem, and I'm really very sad about that, because I do care about trans people, and want the discussion based on facts.

A testimonial is not the conclusion. It is the claim. I have heard testimonials from people who claim that it is impossible for the early Egyptians to build the Pyramids without the help of aliens or technologically advanced, that the government knows that the earth is flat, that the moon landing was a hoax, that COVID is the first world wide pandemic, that gay adults are out recruiting your straight children, that women of color are hypersexual and cannot be raped, that Jim Crow policies were actually better for blacks in the US. That vaccines cause autism. That Bill Gates will send you a watch if you forward this email. Roswell.

I have heard all these things as testimonials.

What did you do to verify that this person is a source for anything? That they are telling the truth bout the incidents that they claim to have witnessed first hand? That the practice is common in that facility? That it is common in that country? That it is common practice by doctors worldwide?

 

[Heyo]

I didn't work there, so I'm not a source. You have the opportunity to listen to someone who actually did work there.

Who claimed to work there. On the show of a known quack.