Genesis - Big Bang mash-up

[Audie]

Thank you, I think there is still a lot of research ahead for science to understand fully the history of the universe.

English is hard. So is Cantonese!
But it won't matter the language, "full
knowledge" was last dreamt of in
Victorian times.

Feynman put it that " if you knew all
there is to know about this glass of water
you'd know most of the secrets of the universe."

 

[YoursTrue]

...if you believe the universe exists, then it follows the God exists.

Do you think some people believe the universe does not exist?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

English is hard. So is Cantonese!
But it won't matter the language, "full
knowledge" was last dreamt of in
Victorian times.

Feynman put it that " if you knew all
there is to know about this glass of water
you'd know most of the secrets of the universe."

Full knowledge, ie. realization, is not in words! Words/concepts are meant to represent reality, but the verbal/mathematical explanation is not it. The finger pointing at the moon!

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Do you think some people believe the universe does not exist?

Possibly, it's a strange world. What is true is that some people do not believe that the reality represented by the concept of God is 'all that exists'/'universe'. Dualism v Omnipresence.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

my final answer was “yes and no” to ceasing research.

Some can continue even when a particular goal has been achieved.

To give, you example, the Higgs Mechanism was developed back in 1964, but they didn’t discover the Higgs boson until 2012 at CERN LHC experiment. One goal was achieved, but the research continued after this goal.

You are saying that at after a specific goal was achieved, research into another/separate goal continued. This is in agreement with what Audie and I said.

 

[Audie]

Full knowledge, ie. realization, is not in words! Words/concepts are meant to represent reality, but the verbal/mathematical explanation is not it. The finger pointing at the moon!

-evs

 

[Ben Dhyan]

-evs stands for?

 

[gnostic]

You are saying that at after a specific goal was achieved, research into another/separate goal continued.

It depends on the research. Some will stop, others will continue. That's what I am saying.

You cannot put every scientific researches into a single pigeonhole.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

It depends on the research. Some will stop, others will continue. That's what I am saying.

And that is also what Audie and I are saying.

You cannot put every scientific researches into a single pigeonhole.

What do you mean by 'pigeonhole'?

 

[Audie]

-evs stands for?

Short for whatevs

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Short for whatevs

Thank you.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

Only some revisionist Christian creationists (with Genesis) and Muslims (with the Qur’an) try to incorporate the Big Bang Into their respective creation beliefs.

"Only some". Lets remember that that "only some" includes thousands of people. You make it sound as if it doesn't bear repeating. Meanwhile, popular scientific publications continue to facilitate the misrepresentation by talking about the Big Bang as a "creation event" or "the beginning of the universe".

When the Pope in 1951, at the time tried to promote catholic church as champion of the Big Bang model, because one of the founders in the 1920s happened to be Catholic priest, Georges Lemaître actually retorted Pius XII, stating that the BB model had nothing to do with Genesis Creation.

If only everyone had listened to him, eh?

The big bang model started because of Edwin Hubble, back in 1919, when he discovered that the Milky Way isn’t the only universe, and what were classified in the 18th & 19th centuries to be nebulae were actually gal, which implied that the universe was larger than everyone had imagined.

This is oversimplified- the big bang model "started" because Hubble observed that distant galaxies were receding with a speed proportional to their distance, and because Penzias and Wilson discovered a universal background hum while cleaning up mountains of bird **** for A T&T.

Big Bang cosmology isn’t a religion any more than General Relativity or Quantum Field Theory are.

Ok? You post this comment after a quote talking about the reality of singularities. In other words, completely un-related. Reading your post, I have to wonder if you meant to reply to someone else because you don't really seem to be disagreeing with me despite giving the appearance to the contrary.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

The big bang model started because of Edwin Hubble, back in 1919, when he discovered that the Milky Way isn’t the only universe, and what were classified in the 18th & 19th centuries to be nebulae were actually gal, which implied that the universe was larger than everyone had imagined.

Ahem.....Georges Lemaître originated the concept of the Big Bang Universe.

The Jesuit astronomer who conceived of the Big Bang | Astronomy.com
In 1927, a prescient astronomer named Georges Lemaître looked at data showing how galaxies move. He noticed something peculiar – all of them appeared to be speeding away from Earth. Not only that, but the farther away they were, the faster they went. He determined a mathematical way to represent this. That of a universe continually expanding. It was a radical idea then, but today it fits with our conception of a universe spawned by a Big Bang.
If you’re an astronomy trivia buff, the name associated with the Big Bang is Edwin Hubble, who also has a rather famous telescope named after himself. Hubble also came up with the concept, but Lemaître beat him to the punch, though his idea got little attention at the time. Now, he may finally share in the recognition for his revolutionary theory.

How did the Big Bang get its name? Here’s the real story

The origins of the universe, explained

Georges Lemaître | Big Bang Theory, Cosmology & Physics

 

[gnostic]

Ahem.....Georges Lemaître originated the concept of the Big Bang Universe.

Actually there were 6 men who contributed to the Expanding Universe model, during the 1920s, Ben…not one person.

Lemaître was just one of 3 theoretical physicists working on physical cosmology…

• Alexander Friedmann (1922),
• Howard Percy Robertson (1924-25); and with Arthur Geoffrey Walker (1936), mathematician,
• Georges Lemaître (1927), author of Hypothesis of the Primeval Atom

All 3 independently formulated the Expanding Universe model (it was called the “Big Bang“ model until Fred Hoyle coined the misnomer name in BBC interview, 1949).

All three (4, counting Walker with Robertson, in 1936) came up with the same metric that provide the exact solution to Einstein’s field equations for General Relativity. This metric is known today as the FLRW Metric (named after the 4 men - Friedmann, Lemaître, Robertson & Walker).

Although, Einstein have his own cosmology - the Static Universe model (1917) - it was his GR field equations that provide the framework for 3 independent models of the same concept…so even though Einstein disagree with Friedmann & Lemaître, he was in part, played a pinnacle role in the Expanding Universe model.

When the FLRW Metric is used with Einstein’s field equations, it became known as the Friedmann Equation.

Robertson’s (1924) & Lemaître’s (1927) biggest contributions to the budding hypothesis, was incorporating Vesto Slipher’s Doppler Effect into the models, predicting that the observations of distant galaxies would appear to be stretching or lengthening towards the red of the EM spectrum, moving away from the Earth’s observer - the (Gravitational) Redshift would indicate the Universe to be “expanding”.

I did say “6 men”, didn’t I?

Not only did Edwin Hubble discovered in 1919, the Universe was larger than the Milky Way, there were many nebulae that were actually galaxies. Hubble‘s greatest contribution was in 1929, where he discover the Gravitational Redshift, of the distant galaxies, which was the very first piece of evidence for the Expanding Universe (Big Bang) model...that verified the independent predictions of Lemaître & Robertson.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Actually there were 6 men who contributed to the Expanding Universe model, during the 1920s, Ben…not one person.

Lemaître was just one of 3 theoretical physicists working on physical cosmology…

• Alexander Friedmann (1922),
• Howard Percy Robertson (1924-25); and with Arthur Geoffrey Walker (1936), mathematician,
• Georges Lemaître (1927), author of Hypothesis of the Primeval Atom

All 3 independently formulated the Expanding Universe model (it was called the “Big Bang“ model until Fred Hoyle coined the misnomer name in BBC interview, 1949).

All three (4, counting Walker with Robertson, in 1936) came up with the same metric that provide the exact solution to Einstein’s field equations for General Relativity. This metric is known today as the FLRW Metric (named after the 4 men - Friedmann, Lemaître, Robertson & Walker).

Although, Einstein have his own cosmology - the Static Universe model (1917) - it was his GR field equations that provide the framework for 3 independent models of the same concept…so even though Einstein disagree with Friedmann & Lemaître, he was in part, played a pinnacle role in the Expanding Universe model.

When the FLRW Metric is used with Einstein’s field equations, it became known as the Friedmann Equation.

Robertson’s (1924) & Lemaître’s (1927) biggest contributions to the budding hypothesis, was incorporating Vesto Slipher’s Doppler Effect into the models, predicting that the observations of distant galaxies would appear to be stretching or lengthening towards the red of the EM spectrum, moving away from the Earth’s observer - the (Gravitational) Redshift would indicate the Universe to be “expanding”.

I did say “6 men”, didn’t I?

Not only did Edwin Hubble discovered in 1919, the Universe was larger than the Milky Way, there were many nebulae that were actually galaxies. Hubble‘s greatest contribution was in 1929, where he discover the Gravitational Redshift, of the distant galaxies, which was the very first piece of evidence for the Expanding Universe (Big Bang) model...that verified the independent predictions of Lemaître & Robertson.

Fine, I was referring to the Big Bang though.

 

[Audie]

Fine, I was referring to the Big Bang though.

"Big Bang" wasn't his term.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

"Big Bang" wasn't his term.

Dear Audie, I can only quote his words..... "The big bang model started because of Edwin Hubble, when he discovered that the Milky Way isn’t the only universe, and what were classified in the 18th & 19th centuries to be nebulae were actually gal, which implied that the universe was larger than everyone had imagined.".....see my post #113.

 

[RestlessSoul]

"Big Bang" wasn't his term.

It was Fred Hoyle’s, but the joke was on him, for now.

On the subject of Genesis and the Big Bang, many people in astronomy, philosophy, and theology recognise how the opening verses of the Bible seem to echo in what is now the standard theoretical model of cosmology.

Lemaitre, the astronomer and theologian, downplayed the significance of this. But the sheer poetic drama of the one as metaphor for the other, is there for anyone who cares to see it, and make of it whatever they will.

 

[gnostic]

Dear Audie, I can only quote his words..... "The big bang model started because of Edwin Hubble, when he discovered that the Milky Way isn’t the only universe, and what were classified in the 18th & 19th centuries to be nebulae were actually gal, which implied that the universe was larger than everyone had imagined.".....see my post #113.

The term “Big Bang” wasn’t coined by Hubble, or by anyone el during the 1920s. It was unofficially called the “Expanding Universe” cosmology.

I am thinking, you may have been confusingly referring to the “Hubble’s Law” or the “Lemaître-Hubble Law”, because the “Law“ comprised of both of 2 mathematical solutions that explain the Expanding Universe model:

1. the Friedmann Equations and the FLRW Metric, both proposed by Friedmann (1922) & Lemaître (1927),
2. and the Gravitational Redshift proposed by Lemaître (1927) & Robertson (1924), and the Redshifts were verified by the discovery by Hubble in 1929.

As @RestlessSoul said, the name “Big Bang” was coined by Fred Hoyle, during BBC interview in 1949.

Lemaître was still alive, when everyone started using the ”Big Bang” during the 1950s.

At the time of the interview, Hoyle was trying to promote the version of the Steady-State model (1948), against the new version of the Expanding Universe model (also 1948), proposed by George Gamow, Ralph Alpher & Robert Herman. But the Big Bang hypothesis was turned into scientific theory, with the discovery of the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation in 1964, that was discovered by Arno Penzias & Robert Wilson…the discovery which refuted Hoyle’s Steady-State model.

The name (”Big Bang”) itself was invented by Hoyle, in 1949…the “Big Bang” wasn't used by Lemaître or by Hubble during the 1920s.

 

[Pogo]

Dear Audie, I can only quote his words..... "The big bang model started because of Edwin Hubble, when he discovered that the Milky Way isn’t the only universe, and what were classified in the 18th & 19th centuries to be nebulae were actually gal, which implied that the universe was larger than everyone had imagined.".....see my post #113.

Clearification
Semantic error due to imprecision in the language.
The model that became what is known as the big bang model began with a discovery by Edwin Hubble, it was not called the Big Bang until 1949 when Fred Hoyle tried to make fun of it.
Now you know the rest of the story and will be able to correct others who make the mistake of attributing Big Bang to Hubble.