The Big Bang Theory is dead.

[Polymath257]

Except that it's conjecture as to a common ancestor. We're missing a set of chromosomes...says the scientist. They disappeared, or went the way of all flesh or the mystery of the missing set. And yet along with those so-called missing chromosomes we as humans can read, write, figure decimals and things like quantum physics. I guess the extra chromosomes in gorillas, chimps and orangatans don't give them the opportunity to build bicycles, invent cars, etc. Or maybe they figure without telling humans, hey, why bother with ruining the atomosphere or building bicycles? Let those humans with missing chromosomes do it. Those missing chromosomes sure make a difference.

No the extra chromosomes don’t make a difference because humans have the same genes, just on fewer chromosomes because some of the ape merged to give the human chromosomes.

 

[Polymath257]

If I believe that, I'd have to believe the conclusions from what scientists view as evidence.

That alone says volumes. Once again, you start with the conclusion and ignore evidence that contradicts it. That is a poor way to get to the truth.

I have questions about things like artifacts and as some know, deposits from lava, etc. As well as landslides and other things that can literally muddy up the water. Or dating process.

No, they can not. The dating methods are not affected by those things. If you understood them, you would get that. But you clearly don’t want to understand them, so you can ignore the results.

Not saying the rocks, etc. on the earth or what composes the planet without life is not billions of years old. Meantime I still feel that the opportunities humans have to examine, investigate, build hospitals, teach doctors, make charts and maps, etc. leads me (not everyone, I suppose) to believe there is a God, a higher power that made man to wonder and think about these things. No response has convinced me otherwise.

And the existence of a God would not affect the scientific conclusions one bit. Of good started life on earth, the evidence would still show evolution happened after that point. The dating evidence would still show the earth is 4.5 billion years old. The existence of God would not chance and interpretations either.

 

[Polymath257]

I'd llike to mention that the Bible also says that one day can be considered as one thousand years in God's eyes: 2 Peter 3:8 says, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." (King James Version) Therefore, the time element of a 'day' can be different in God's eyes than in our eyes of 24 hours each 'day.' That is another reason why I consider some evidence to be indicative of creation much longer than 6,000 years or so.

If one day is like a thousand years, the multiplication factor is 365,000. So 7 days corresponds to only about two and a half million years.

 

[John53]

Except that it's conjecture as to a common ancestor.

It's evidence as explained by @Polymath257 who is far smarter, nicer and much much much more patient than me.

We're missing a set of chromosomes...says the scientist. They disappeared, or went the way of all flesh or the mystery of the missing set.

You obviously didn't bother to read what Poly so kindly wrote for you. They're not missing they're fused.

And yet along with those so-called missing chromosomes we as humans can read, write, figure decimals and things like quantum physics. I guess the extra chromosomes in gorillas, chimps and orangatans don't give them the opportunity to build bicycles, invent cars, etc. Or maybe they figure without telling humans, hey, why bother with ruining the atomosphere or building bicycles? Let those humans with missing chromosomes do it. Those missing chromosomes sure make a difference.

So what! I can't do a lot of things other humans can do but that doesn't mean my evolution is different. Can you do quantum physics? I sure as hell can't, nor can I run a mile in under 4 minutes or a million other things that others can do.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Except that it's conjecture as to a common ancestor. We're missing a set of chromosomes...says the scientist. They disappeared, or went the way of all flesh or the mystery of the missing set. And yet along with those so-called missing chromosomes we as humans can read, write, figure decimals and things like quantum physics. I guess the extra chromosomes in gorillas, chimps and orangatans don't give them the opportunity to build bicycles, invent cars, etc. Or maybe they figure without telling humans, hey, why bother with ruining the atomosphere or building bicycles? Let those humans with missing chromosomes do it. Those missing chromosomes sure make a difference.

No! No one said that they went away. I have explained this to you, @Polymath257 explained this to you, and why use the false claim of conjecture? If you do not understand ask questions. People will be polite if you are polite. It is very rude to tell falsehoods about others. This is not "conjecture". Just because you cannot understand something does not make it conjecture.

Such accusations put a burden of proof on you and you have never met it.

 

[YoursTrue]

48

And he answered the question of where that fusion occurred. You see, he made a prediction based on the chromosome numbers that two pairs fused into one pair.

Then he looked at our chromosomes and found where the fusion occurred and why we know it was a fusion.

Usually, chromosomes have one centromere and two telomeres ( repeated sequences of DNA) at both ends. In human chromosome 2, however, there are two centromeres ( one inactive) and three telomeres, one in the middle of the chromosome and twice as big as usual. This is exactly what would be expected of there was a merge. Furthermore, we can compare the genes on those chromosomes with those on chromosomes in chimps and determine which chimp chromosomes merged to make human chromosome 2.

Finally, there is no reason why there would be two centromeres and three telomeres unless two chromosomes merged.

So we have the following sequence of events: it was found that humans have 46 chromosomes in 23 pairs and most great apes have 48 in 24 pairs. That leads to the prediction that two pairs of chromosomes merged in the human line.

Then it was found that human chromosome 2 has exactly the characteristics that would be expected from such s as merge and the genes on that chromosomes are those on two of the ape chromosomes. Furthermore, the placement of genes in the ape chromosomes lines up with the human chromosome if there was a merge. Finally, there is no reason for the human chromosome to have the characteristics it has unless it was a merge from two previous chromosomes in the past.

Now, if you object to the conclusion that the chromosomes merged and that shows a common ancestor with the other apes and humans, you need to explain these facts. In particular, you need to explain why human chromosome 2 has two centromeres and three telomeres when chromosomes usually have one centromere and two telomeres. You would also need to explain why the genes in the chromosomes line up as if there was a merger.

I am not particulary wondering about how he figured the fusion. Like I say, what a difference a fusion makes...and again -- no discovery of that unknown common ancestor, perhaps as I have said it went away in a tsunami or earthquake... Leaving their offspring behind. Chimps remain chimpsn, gorillas remain gorillas and of course, humans remain humans. still no trace of that so-called common ancestor.

 

[YoursTrue]

If one day is like a thousand years, the multiplication factor is 365,000. So 7 days corresponds to only about two and a half million years.

ok, if I'm permitted, that put a smile with a little laugh on my face. Except! -- As I'm reading your lovely answer again, the days of creation in Genesis refer to a set period of time for each 'day,' not a 24-hour day in any case. The evidence testifies against it. And, each day had a start and an end. Except for -- the 7th day, which has not been said to have an end. Yet.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I am not particulary wondering about how he figured the fusion. Like I say, what a difference a fusion makes...and again -- no discovery of that unknown common ancestor, perhaps as I have said it went away in a tsunami or earthquake... Leaving their offspring behind. Chimps remain chimpsn, gorillas remain gorillas and of course, humans remain humans. still no trace of that so-called common ancestor.

Once again. There are groups of identifiable molecules at the ends of a strand of DNA. They are called telomeres. Geneticists can identify them quite easily, they can tell you their purpose too. For me to do it I would have to look it up, but it has to do with growth regulation.

Those can also be found in the middle of our Chromosome 2. What are they doing there? DNA also has a centromere, and I can tell you what job that has. They are somewhere in the middle of a strand of DNA. But we have an extra one of those two, but it is not used. Do you know what explains these observations? A join in the DNA.

Remember just Zebras? They have from 32 to 46 Chromosomes. According to you I am sure that they are all "one kind". So how can they have that large of a difference and be one kind and yet all of us apes cannot be one "kind" too just because there is a difference of only one chromosome pair. Between us and other great apes?

 

[Polymath257]

ok, if I'm permitted, that put a smile with a little laugh on my face. Except! -- As I'm reading your lovely answer again, the days of creation in Genesis refer to a set period of time for each 'day,' not a 24-hour day in any case. The evidence testifies against it. And, each day had a start and an end. Except for -- the 7th day, which has not been said to have an end. Yet.

A set period of time. As in 'a morning and an evening'. Now why would there be mornings and evenings unless there is a sun? And would that not make the time period one revolution of the earth?

Now, one revolution is currently 24 hours, but in the past it was *less*, not more. The rotation of the Earth is slowing down, not speeding up.

 

[Esteban X]

There are no errors in the King James Bible.

Well that's just wrong

Note that I am providing as much evidence for my position as you do for yours.

 

[YoursTrue]

A set period of time. As in 'a morning and an evening'. Now why would there be mornings and evenings unless there is a sun? And would that not make the time period one revolution of the earth?

Now, one revolution is currently 24 hours, but in the past it was *less*, not more. The rotation of the Earth is slowing down, not speeding up.

It's kind of hard to have a discussion if we cannot agree on basics, right? So do you agree that the Bible in the Genesis account makes no mention of the 7th day as having an end to it, but the other 6 days each have a beginning and an end to them?

 

[YoursTrue]

You are the one who is hung up on "missing" chromosomes.
Even after it being explained to you that they are not "missing".

But the lecturer said they are missing. The gorillas, chimps and orangutans hae 48 chromosomes. Only humans have 46.

 

[ppp]

But the lecturer said they are missing. The gorillas, chimps and orangutans hae 48 chromosomes. Only humans have 46.

C'mon dude. We all suspected that there was a Chromosome fusion before the human genome project even started. Well, all of us who were paying attention. The human and panin genome projects confirmed it almost more than a decade ago.

Tell me, @YoursTrue, why don't creationists keep up on the scientific literature?

 

[SavedByTheLord]

C'mon dude. We all suspected that there was a Chromosome fusion before the human genome project even started. Well, all of us who were paying attention. The human and panin genome projects confirmed it almost more than a decade ago.

Tell me, @YoursTrue, why don't creationists keep up on the scientific literature?

Please document how that happened in any species especially with sexual reproduction.
Go through the first 20 generations.

 

[ppp]

Please document how that happened in any species especially with sexual reproduction.
Go through the first 20 generations.

Demonstrate that you have made any effort to keep up with the scientific literature in the lat 5 years, and that you have a working understanding both of the mechanisms of centromere fusion, and of some species in which it has occurred.. In other words, demonstrate that you are qualified to have this conversation and are not just an ignorant hack wasting my time.

 

[McBell]

Demonstrate that you have made any effort to keep up with the scientific literature in the lat 5 years, and that you have a working understanding both of the mechanisms of centromere fusion, and of some species in which it has occurred.. In other words, demonstrate that you are qualified to have this conversation and are not just an ignorant hack wasting my time.

What you wanna bet it never happens?

 

[McBell]

Goddamn it would be amazing if it did. But no bet

Bwawk
bwawk Bwawk

On a more (but admittedly not much more) serious note...
I do not blame ya one bit

 

[ratiocinator]

But the lecturer said they are missing.

This is just incredible. The video is clear, other people have explained it, and you still have your head stuck firmly in the sand. What is it about two chromosomes fusing that you find so incomprehensible? The theory of evolution predicted that there must have been a fusion, we looked for evidence and found it.

This leads directly to the conclusion of a common ancestor because the theory made a prediction that was correct. It is also something that special creation has no explanation for (unless the designer was out to deliberately deceive).

 

[SavedByTheLord]

This is just incredible. The video is clear, other people have explained it, and you still have your head stuck firmly in the sand. What is it about two chromosomes fusing that you find so incomprehensible? The theory of evolution predicted that there must have been a fusion, we looked for evidence and found it.

This leads directly to the conclusion of a common ancestor because the theory made a prediction that was correct. It is also something that special creation has no explanation for (unless the designer was out to deliberately deceive).

They have a video the chromosomes fusing in an actual primate many eons ago?

 

[ratiocinator]

They have a video the chromosomes fusing in an actual primate many eons ago?

Care to offer your own explanation for the evidence that doesn't make your God a liar?

[Not holding my breath.]