Life From Dirt?

[ratiocinator]

And look! Dr. Hawking changed his view from could be/maybe God did it to the universe just kind of came about (created itself) by itself from -- nothing. Now if you can investigate that belief, you go right ahead. First say if you know if gravity existed before the universe "created itself" as Dr. Hawking believes. Not your belief, but proof positive that is verifiable.

Where are you getting this nonsense from? If you think Hawking said anything remotely like this, where is the reference?

Keep looking -- I quoted the material Dr. Hawking provided

Where did you quote anything at all from him? You've made a lot of unsupported claims about what he thought but source material seems to be totally absent.

 

[Kenny]

Your question was a rather poor one. It deserved no more than a rant. But it also explained the popularity of Christianity. Like many religions it was largely spread by the sword.

Depends on which time-frame you are looking at. (The religious people that called themselves Christians did give it a bad name) - Of course, atheism has a worse name in what they did with the sword and bullets et al.

The first century, it went about the whole of the known world without a sword.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Depends on which time-frame you are looking at. (The religious people that called themselves Christians did give it a bad name) - Of course, atheism has a worse name in what they did with the sword and bullets et al.

The first century, it went about the whole of the known world without a sword.

The "whole world"? Are you sure about that? From what I have seen it was mostly limited to the Roman Empire, and only it small areas of it. Where was it accepted outside of the Roman Empire in the first century?

 

[Kenny]

The "whole world"? Are you sure about that? From what I have seen it was mostly limited to the Roman Empire, and only it small areas of it. Where was it accepted outside of the Roman Empire in the first century?

I think it was speed reading… I didn’t say “whole world” but “known world” - obviously talking about the Roman Empire though it went a little further than that.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think it was speed reading… I didn’t say “whole world” but “known world” - obviously talking about the Roman Empire though it went a little further than that.

Actually it was "whole of the known world". That does not really limit it to the Roman Empire at all. In China they had their own "known world".

Okay, so it was just in the Roman Empire. The religion originally appealed to the downtrodden and the Roman Empire had a lot of that.

 

[shunyadragon]

The context wasn’t the “definition”

For proper communication in the English language the context should fit the definition.

The context of “incongruent” was “I won’t investigate”. If you want to know Jacks trustworthiness, you would investigate. To say there is no substance of Jack worthiness, one way or the other, is to say “I really don’t care”. It wouldn’t make you an agnostic, it would make you an “i don’t care” person

The problem with the request to investigate is there is no way to coherently investigate, by definition, the supernatural.

Not asking you to join me. I asked you to investigate. If you became a satanist, at least you could say “I investigated”.

On a side note, it depends on what you learned. Some people have to unlearn some Christian teaching to find Jesus teaching

OK… the if you accept it, just continue investigating it. That is all I am trying to say.

So you can see what I mean now.

The problem remains, 'How do you investigate the supernatural?'

 

[exchemist]

I don't think that being a professor means that your opinion is always going to be right.
There are historians and archaeologists who disagree with Joel S. Baden?
As I said, imo the evidence points to the truth of the Exodus.

There are plenty of other informed sources, including Wikipedia, that say exactly the same thing. It is, fairly clearly, the consensus that the Exodus story did not occur as described in the bible. No doubt there are some mavericks who swim against the stream: there always are. But that does not prevent the existence of a consensus.

 

[shunyadragon]

And look! Dr. Hawking changed his view from could be/maybe God did it to the universe just kind of came about (created itself) by itself from -- nothing.

Hawking never stated you can investigate subjective beliefs. You are dishonestly misrepresenting Dr, Hawking. Nonetheless. a 'maybe' remains a subjective maybe as I previously described. Hawking's nothing is NOT absolute nothing. It is the quantum nothing, which you do not remotely understand,

Also please cite Hawking in complete context.

Now if you can investigate that belief, you go right ahead. First say if you know if gravity existed before the universe "created itself" as Dr. Hawking believes. Not your belief, but proof positive that is verifiable. How about it?
(I amend that -- Dr. Hawking doesn't BELIEVE anything now -- he dead.)

Again dishonest misrepresenting Hawking. Hawking never stated that the universe "created itself."

You do not remotely understand Quantum Mechanics. and the proposed formation of the universe from a singularity in a greater Multiverse as a singularity.

Again. please cite Hawking completely in context, and NOT dishonestly misrepresent him with your agenda and an intentional ignorance of science.

. . . please respond coherently to my post.

 

[Kenny]

Actually it was "whole of the known world". That does not really limit it to the Roman Empire at all. In China they had their own "known world".

Okay, so it was just in the Roman Empire. The religion originally appealed to the downtrodden and the Roman Empire had a lot of that.

I don’t think you quite understand the impact the message has...

Did Apostles Go to China?

Evidence suggests Christianity reached China in the first century

www.christianitytoday.com

 

[shunyadragon]

I don’t think you quite understand the impact the message has...

Did Apostles Go to China?

Evidence suggests Christianity reached China in the first century

www.christianitytoday.com

So what?!?!? In the history of humanity that doe not represent the whole human world over thousands of years of it's existence,

 

[Kenny]

So what?!?!? In the history of humanity that doe not represent the whole human world over thousands of years of it's existence,

??????? this makes no sense in context of the subject matter. Is there something else that is bothering you? The message?

 

[shunyadragon]

Depends on which time-frame you are looking at. (The religious people that called themselves Christians did give it a bad name) - Of course, atheism has a worse name in what they did with the sword and bullets et al.

The first century, it went about the whole of the known world without a sword.

In the greater time frame Judaism, Christianity and Islam has committed as much atrocities against non-believers than any one else. Your selective 'people called themselves Christians' is far to selective as to who commits atrocities. Hitler appealed to the writings of Martin Luther to justify his pogroms against the Jews. The long torcherous bloody history of pogroms against Jews was done or widely supported by Christians regardless of the religion of the government.

The Christian history of Russia and the rest of Europe is pogroms against Jews based on the belief that they are "Christ killers" as protrayed in the wide spread passion play in all of Europe. This is in part based on citations in the NT whether valid or not.

Actually the most non-violent religion in the world is Buddhism with.of course, exceptions,

 

[shunyadragon]

??????? this makes no sense in context of the subject matter. Is there something else that is bothering you? The message?

First it is relevant when considering the whole history of humanity or even the history of the whole world at the time of Christ, life. Also even though Christianity was introduced to China it had very little impact and even today is numerically and minor religion China remains dominantly Confucian.. Second, yes please respond to post #3213 and 3226.

 

[Kenny]

In the greater time frame Judaism, Christianity and Islam has committed as much atrocities against non-believers than any one else. Your selective 'people called themselves Christians' is far to selective as to who commits atrocities. Hitler appealed to the writings of Martin Luther to justify his pogroms against the Jews. The long torcherous history of pogroms against Jews was done or widely supported by Christians regardless of the religion of the government.

The Christian history of Russia and the rest of Europe is pogroms against Jews based on the belief that they are "Christ killers" as protrayed in the wide spread passion play in all of Europe. This is in part based on citations in the NT whether valid or not.

Actually the most non-violent religion in the world is Buddhism with.of course. exceptions,

I’m not denying the history of what was done in the name of Christianity. Pretty much every sector has done that.

Doesn’t change the message -

 

[shunyadragon]

I’m not denying the history of what was done in the name of Christianity. Pretty much every sector has done that.

Doesn’t change the message -

It just documented that your accusations against atheists are FALSE when compared to the history of Christianity. Even though the governments of Germany and Russia were Socialist and dominantly atheist the atrocities against Jews were committed by Christians long before the 20th century attrocities.

 

[YoursTrue]

Abiogenisis and evolution..They are two seperate events but ....

Did...
-evolution start a soon as life began(kind of like we start dying the day we are conceived)

-before as chemical evolution that lead to life(but then that wouldnt be life evolving if it isn't life yet)

Good questions -- I like those questions -- maybe (?) you'll get an answer.

 

[Kenny]

It just documented that your accusations against atheists are FALSE when compared to the history of Christianity. Even though the governments of Germany and Russia were Socialist and dominantly atheist the atrocities against Jews were committed by Christians long before the 20th century attrocities.

It’s common knowledge that atheists have killed more people than any other group. Stalin, Mao et al

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don’t think you quite understand the impact the message has...

Did Apostles Go to China?

Evidence suggests Christianity reached China in the first century

www.christianitytoday.com

If that was true you would think that you could find it confirmed at a reliable source. All sorts of people have made crazy claims for the Bible. Sites like that will gobble up any positive story. If you want to claim to have evidence you need reliable sources. Not matter what the topic is. You need it to be verified by independent historians that understand Chinese of that time period.

 

[Kenny]

If that was true you would think that you could find it confirmed at a reliable source. All sorts of people have made crazy claims for the Bible. Sites like that will gobble up any positive story. If you want to claim to have evidence you need reliable sources. Not matter what the topic is. You need it to be verified by independent historians that understand Chinese of that time period.

yes… no matter what one finds, it’s never enough… Reminds me of a story:

Luke 16:30-31​

The Message​

30 “‘I know, Father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but they’re not listening. If someone came back to them from the dead, they would change their ways.’
31 “Abraham replied, ‘If they won’t listen to Moses and the Prophets, they’re not going to be convinced by someone who rises from the dead.’”

Within the context of my signaure

 

[shunyadragon]

If that was true you would think that you could find it confirmed at a reliable source. All sorts of people have made crazy claims for the Bible. Sites like that will gobble up any positive story. If you want to claim to have evidence you need reliable sources. Not matter what the topic is. You need it to be verified by independent historians that understand Chinese of that time period.

There are records in China that Nestorian Christians were in China in ~645 CE. maybe a little earlier in Xinjiang and establish several churches centered on Xi'an.