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"If there is a hell, there can be no heaven"

Bronze

Bronze

Bronze
a quote i heard a while back, it means, because so many people are evidently rotting in hell for various reasons, virtually everyone that does make it to heaven, will have at least one loved one or friend in hell, thus ruining true heaven.

BUT, i have heard people say to this, heaven is an individual state of mind, those people in heaven will perseive their loved ones in heaven with them, and be oblivious to whatever they would want. HOWEVER....

that begs the question, if heaven is an individual state of mind, wouldnt a truly truly omnibenevolent god let everyone "into" heaven? there would be absolutely no negative side effects to doing so, and everyone, even if they didnt deserve, should be awarded heaven because thats what a benevolent being would do, right? there would be no harm what so ever, and evading sending people to hell unessesarily would be the most benevolent thing a god could do.

SO, i have to conclude that either god is not benevolent/merciful; or heaven does not exist because of the existance of hell....
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
This is hell, Sheol is soil and is the lowest dimension or single quarks (quantum’s)……….
Yet I don’t think I have ever read God made heaven and earth + hell?
When God asked Satan where did he come from, he replies walking the earth (Job)….

So why clergy to us, are like prison wardens trying to keep you in on bad behaviour to get paid….
 
H

HB3

Member
Bronze said:
oh really? then where does satan and lawyers and rapists reside might i ask?
Click to expand...

A couple of possibilities. I believe some religions or religious people (not sure which) believe that people who are not going to heaven for whatever reason just cease to exist after death. In other words, their soul dies with their body. Better than Hell I suppose. Or if life is just a test, perhaps we won't get expelled from school just for not passing the test. I challenge someone to come up with a hokier analogy than that. But seriously, if human lifetime is just a speck in eternity, should people be punished eternally for such a short period of sin.
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Here in Mammon (chaotic life) as Yeshua clearly related.....
Yet few listened to him properly and would rather except Pharisee dogma, that makes no sense.....
 
Comprehend

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Bronze said:
oh really? then where does satan and lawyers and rapists reside might i ask?
Click to expand...

you honestly lumped lawyers in with satan and rapists??? :cover:

All lawyers cannot be bad can they?


BTW - Mormons believe that nearly everyone makes it to heaven so your problem wouldn't apply.
 
Bronze

Bronze

Bronze
Comprehend said:
you honestly lumped lawyers in with satan and rapists??? :cover:

All lawyers cannot be bad can they?

the lawyer thing was a joke, you know how its a big cliche thing, all lawyers are in hell or whatever...


BTW - Mormons believe that nearly everyone makes it to heaven so your problem wouldn't apply.
Click to expand...

thats fine, but really im talking about traditional christianity fundamentalism, so the above question/argument, in regards to christians, how does it apply?
 
Comprehend

Comprehend

Res Ipsa Loquitur
Bronze said:
thats fine, but really im talking about traditional christianity fundamentalism, so the above question/argument, in regards to christians, how does it apply?
Click to expand...

well, mormons are christians but I guess we aren't traditional christian fundamentalists...

If you are only addressing "traditional christian fundamentalists" maybe you shouldn't post your thread in "general religious debates"... :)
 
Darkness

Darkness

Psychoanalyst/Marxist
I know I could never go to Heaven while I knew people were being tormented in Hell. Guess if all that mythology is true I will be fighting with the Fallen Angels.
 
darkpenguin

darkpenguin

Charismatic Enigma
To be honest I think if you believe in heaven and hell and are very set in you're religious ways then you accept that not everyone you know and care about will make it with you.
I mean geez you wouldn't get a driving instructor passing you and passing your friend just because it would make you unhappy if your friend didn't pass.
A pretty lame metaphor I know but it's 3 in the morning and I can't decide whether I'm tired or not lol.
My own view is that if there really is a 'hell' then we're here allready so I guess souls of people doomed to hell are re-birthed right here.
My friend the truth is nobody knows for sure what happens, the best thing to do is to try not to worry about it and actually live your life to the full because who knows, you may only get the one!
 
logician

logician

Well-Known Member
Neither heaven or hell even has strong biblical support, they're more of a mythology made up to user the "carrot and stick" phsychology to gain believers.
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I have to say yes, i have been preparing all this life for just that…….
As i know you can't save anyone, as any Christ cant either……….
Only a person can save them self’s..........so if they cant attune into Oneness (heaven) frequency, then they would spoil it for everyone else......(Sheol is lower frequencies)
Also if you knew how powerful God is and what this reality is made from, then it isn't hard for God to recreate..........
yet without God you have nothing......so for me God comes first even before my own life, if it means serving God to my utmost..........
 
darkpenguin

darkpenguin

Charismatic Enigma
Bronze said:
answer me this, could you accept heaven, and be truly peacful, knowing your own kids were in hell? how about dear friends?
Click to expand...

If theoreticaly I was devoted to my religion then I would eccept that I didn't have a choice. You can guide people in this life but you can't control them.
As with the re-birth idea maybe you will see loved ones etc in the future after they have learnt the error of their previous life.
As I said, who knows?
 
Lindsey-Loo

Lindsey-Loo

Steel Magnolia
Bronze said:
a quote i heard a while back, it means, because so many people are evidently rotting in hell for various reasons, virtually everyone that does make it to heaven, will have at least one loved one or friend in hell, thus ruining true heaven.

BUT, i have heard people say to this, heaven is an individual state of mind, those people in heaven will perseive their loved ones in heaven with them, and be oblivious to whatever they would want. HOWEVER....

that begs the question, if heaven is an individual state of mind, wouldnt a truly truly omnibenevolent god let everyone "into" heaven? there would be absolutely no negative side effects to doing so, and everyone, even if they didnt deserve, should be awarded heaven because thats what a benevolent being would do, right? there would be no harm what so ever, and evading sending people to hell unessesarily would be the most benevolent thing a god could do.

SO, i have to conclude that either god is not benevolent/merciful; or heaven does not exist because of the existance of hell....
Click to expand...

You're thinking is extremely twisted, but oh well, it doesn't surprise me that much.

But anyway...how do you figure that having a loved one in hell will ruin one's true heaven?

And why would God let people "into" Heaven when they don't deserve it?

Oh wait, He can't, because he's not merciful, correct?

Wrong...God has shown us plenty of mercy just by giving us a chance to get to Heaven. He's given us the gift already...the oppurtunity to go to Heaven just by following His word. That's amazingly merciful and loving by itself. If you choose to refuse that gift, then there's nothing more to be done...one who refuses that gift of mercy goes to Hell.
 
A

Atheos

New Member
Guess Who? said:
Wrong...God has shown us plenty of mercy just by giving us a chance to get to Heaven. He's given us the gift already...the oppurtunity to go to Heaven just by following His word. That's amazingly merciful and loving by itself. If you choose to refuse that gift, then there's nothing more to be done...one who refuses that gift of mercy goes to Hell.
Click to expand...
Does that mean non-Christians can go to Heaven? By His word do you mean his teachings (the golden rule), or must you believe to go to Heaven?
 
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