Who Or What Is Israel?

[IndigoChild5559]

Therefore, the Realm of Judaism is like the Realm of Christianity with the different groups making claims of Authenticity. I prefer Karaite Judaism because their only source of Authority is the Hebrew Scriptures.

Yes, because have been influenced by Protestant thinking.

However, sola scriptura is actually contrary to Torah: God grants incredible authority to the Levites and Judges (rabbis) to interpret the law, even giving the death penalty if anyone questions their rulings. Thus we have the establishment of the authority of Oral Torah right there in the Torah. Deuteronomy 17:

8If a matter eludes you in judgment, between blood and blood, between judgment and judgment, or between lesion and lesion, words of dispute in your cities, then you shall rise and go up to the place the Lord, your God, chooses.		חכִּ֣י יִפָּלֵא֩ מִמְּךָ֨ דָבָ֜ר לַמִּשְׁפָּ֗ט בֵּֽין־דָּ֨ם | לְדָ֜ם בֵּֽין־דִּ֣ין לְדִ֗ין וּבֵ֥ין נֶ֨גַע֙ לָנֶ֔גַע דִּבְרֵ֥י רִיבֹ֖ת בִּשְׁעָרֶ֑יךָ וְקַמְתָּ֣ וְעָלִ֔יתָ אֶל־הַ֨מָּק֔וֹם אֲשֶׁ֥ר יִבְחַ֛ר יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ בּֽוֹ:
9And you shall come to the Levitic kohanim and to the judge who will be in those days, and you shall inquire, and they will tell you the words of judgment.		טוּבָאתָ֗ אֶל־הַכֹּֽהֲנִים֙ הַֽלְוִיִּ֔ם וְאֶל־הַ֨שֹּׁפֵ֔ט אֲשֶׁ֥ר יִֽהְיֶ֖ה בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵ֑ם וְדָֽרַשְׁתָּ֙ וְהִגִּ֣ידוּ לְךָ֔ אֵ֖ת דְּבַ֥ר הַמִּשְׁפָּֽט:
10And you shall do according to the word they tell you, from the place the Lord will choose, and you shall observe to do according to all they instruct you.		יוְעָשִׂ֗יתָ עַל־פִּ֤י הַדָּבָר֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יַגִּ֣ידוּ לְךָ֔ מִן־הַמָּק֣וֹם הַה֔וּא אֲשֶׁ֖ר יִבְחַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֑ה וְשָֽׁמַרְתָּ֣ לַֽעֲשׂ֔וֹת כְּכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר יוֹרֽוּךָ:
11According to the law they instruct you and according to the judgment they say to you, you shall do; you shall not divert from the word they tell you, either right or left.		יאעַל־פִּ֨י הַתּוֹרָ֜ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר יוֹר֗וּךָ וְעַל־הַמִּשְׁפָּ֛ט אֲשֶׁר־יֹֽאמְר֥וּ לְךָ֖ תַּֽעֲשֶׂ֑ה לֹ֣א תָס֗וּר מִן־הַדָּבָ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־יַגִּ֥ידוּ לְךָ֖ יָמִ֥ין וּשְׂמֹֽאל:
12And the man who acts intentionally, not obeying the kohen who stands there to serve the Lord, your God, or to the judge that man shall die, and you shall abolish evil from Israel.		יבוְהָאִ֞ישׁ אֲשֶׁר־יַֽעֲשֶׂ֣ה בְזָד֗וֹן לְבִלְתִּ֨י שְׁמֹ֤עַ אֶל־הַכֹּהֵן֙ הָֽעֹמֵ֞ד לְשָׁ֤רֶת שָׁם֙ אֶת־יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ א֖וֹ אֶל־הַשֹּׁפֵ֑ט וּמֵת֙ הָאִ֣ישׁ הַה֔וּא וּבִֽעַרְתָּ֥ הָרָ֖ע מִיִּשְׂרָאֵֽל:
13And all the people shall listen and fear, and they shall no longer act wantonly.		יגוְכָל־הָעָ֖ם יִשְׁמְע֣וּ וְיִרָ֑אוּ וְלֹ֥א יְזִיד֖וּן עֽוֹד:

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I know you are not concerned about what is written in the New Testament. Showing you why for Christians there is Spiritual Israel. The teaching of Spiritual Israel is taught in the New Testament and the Holy Book of Christians is the Holy Scriptures/Bible from Genesis to Revelation. A Christian that does Not Assert Spiritual Israel is Not a Real Christian.

Oh, I fully understand that the New Testament refers to a kind of spiritual Jew. Romans 2:29 says, "29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Sometimes this belief by Christians is attached to Replacement Theology, and sometimes it is not.

My point is that no such concept as spiritual Israel exists in the Tanakh. It is one of many false teachings that Christians have.

Furthermore, any time this Christian belief is used to go further to "This means that Christians are the true Jews, and the descendants of Abraham are fake Jews," (aka Replacement Theology) we already know from 2000 years of church history that this is a dangerous idea that is attached to the persecution and killing of Jews.

 

[Elihoenai]

"Elohim/God is both Good and Evil." -

Evil is a created and cursed. That's why the verse says "I set before you a blessing and a curse". The Lord God, The Most High is not evil. When It says I the Lord do all these things it is 3 things: creating, forming, and making.

"Elohim/God has given Man the choice between the Good Side of Elohim/God and the Evil Side of Elohim/Good" - Nope. There is no "evil side" to God. That's just a gnostic fantasy.

"For a Christian person, turning away from Judaism is choosing life." - There's still no spiritual Israel. What a Christian chooses to do has no impact on that.

Yes, Evil is Cursed. Elohim/God is Omni. Elohim/God is the Creator of All Things and Is All Things. You, @dybmh, Believe in a Limited Elohim/God just like most of the Christians.


Omnipotence

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power. Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence only to the deity of their faith. In the monotheistic religious philosophy of Abrahamic religions, omnipotence is often listed as one of a deity's characteristics, along with omniscience, omnipresence, and omnibenevolence. The presence of all these properties in a single entity has given rise to considerable theological debate, prominently including the problem of evil, the question of why such a deity would permit the existence of evil. It is accepted in philosophy and science that omnipotence can never be effectively understood.

Omnipotence - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If it's not word of God, it's invalid. A human cannot intercede and make changes to God's covenant.



If it's not word of God, it's invalid. A Christian humman cannot intercede and make changes to God's covenant.

And this one is even worse, because it's likely it wasn't even written by an apostle.



They have ZERO authority. You can imagine that they are Holy all you like.

I'm not trying to persuade you otherwise from your Judaic Religious perspective. Showing you why for Christians there is Spiritual Israel. The New Testament is Holy Scripture and Absolute Authority for Christians.

If you desire Power and have no problem with false testimony, then, I'm looking at you thinking, something's wrong here.

Christian Gnostics Desire the Same Power Yeshua/Jesus has. Christian Gnostics Become Yeshua/Jesus.

Bingo dude. That's a demon right there. The desire for power will corrupt a person and cause them to do wacky stuff like identity theft. and worse. This desire for power is not uncommon for gnostics. I understand, and I'm not judging you as a bad person. But, naturally you're going to twist things around in the pursuit for this power.

Yes, Certainly, Christian Gnosticism is all about attaining the Power of Elohim/God by Becoming One with Elohim/God. Elohim/God has made me Morally Superior to you Being a Christian Monk practising Asceticism. Moses is an Ascetic. No doubt you, @dybmh, are having Sex, Eating Meat and Drinking Alcohol for example.


Are There Any Religious Ascetics On These Forums?

Are There Any Religious Ascetics On These Forums?

Galatians 6:17 17 From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Are there any Religious Ascetics on these forums? If yes, how do you practice Religious Asceticism? To what end do you practice Religious Ascetism? Is the intent to draw near to...

www.religiousforums.com

Asceticism

Asceticism (/əˈsɛtɪsɪzəm/; from the Greek: ἄσκησις, romanized: áskesis, lit. 'exercise', 'training') is a lifestyle characterized by abstinence from sensual pleasures, often for the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals.[3] Practitioners are known as Ascetics and may withdraw from the world for their practices or continue to be part of their society, but typically adopt a frugal lifestyle, characterised by the renunciation of material possessions and physical pleasures, and also spend time fasting while concentrating on the practice of religion or reflection upon spiritual matters.[4] Various individuals have also attempted an ascetic lifestyle to free themselves from addictions, some of them particular to modern life, such as alcohol, tobacco, drugs, entertainment, sex, food, meat, etc.

Asceticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elihoenai]

No! Somethings can never be changed by human beings. I will always be a child of my parents, (father's name & mother's name). It doesn't matter if I change my name, it doesn't matter if I'm adopted, it doesn't matter if my parents disown me. None of that changes who I am at that fundemental level. It doesn't change it for anyone.

Since you are imaging magical powers coming with the name Israel, this is not going to make sense to you. But those promises of magical powers in the Chrstian bible are snake-oil. Do you understand what thse words mean? Snake-oil.

The "Trait of Power" is granted to each and every human being. Everyone! But a Christian missionary is going to promise it Christians as if it's something special that only they can have as a recruitment tool.

What about if an Apostate changed their DNA from what was inherited from their parents? The Apostate would be Religiously and Physically separated from Israel. Do you believe that this Apostate remains Israel?

Yes, Everyone has the Trait of Power. The Closer a person is to Elohim/God the more Power they have. There is Good Power and Evil Power.

If it was written by "Paul the apostle" it would be written differently. You have an extreme bias to believe it because you desire the imagined "Trait of Power" that comes from becoming B'nei Elohim which is further imagined coming from Israel. Bro, each and every human being is B'nei Elohim ALREADY. It's not special at all.

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:


I've been Asserting continually on these Forums that Every Person on the Planet is Elohim/God. Therefore, you are contradicting and confusing yourself when you say Elohim/God cannot be Evil. Apart from a Few hundred/thousand Elect, every person on the Planet are Evil Children of the Devil/Satan. The Satan/Devil is Elohim/God in its Lowest Form. Devil/Satan is Elohim/God Flesh. Elohim/God is Flesh, Soul and Spirit.

It doesn't take any credentials at all to see that it doesn't match up.

But none of that matters because: You don't need to be Israel to have this Trait of Power. You don't even need to be a Christian. You don't even need to be a Theist. All of that is imaginary.

And.

No human can intercede and make changes to a covenant of God.

Genesis 3:5

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.


The point is Elohim/God has made Worldly Intelligent people Eyes Wide Shut. Your are Eyes Wide Shut.


Eyes Wide Shut (1999) Official Trailer - Tom Cruise, Nicole Kidman Movie HD

Eyes Wide Shut Trailer (HD)

 

[Elihoenai]

I practice Judaism first, because I do indeed believe in one Creator God who cares about how we treat each other. But also because I am a Jew, and Judaism is the religion of my people.

But Judaism doesn't teach that everyone needs to be a Jew. Other peoples can worship God in their own way, and I am fine with it. As the website Jews for Judaism says, "Believing Judaism is true does not mean negating other spiritual paths. Judaism teaches that while Judaism is the way for Jews, it is not for everyone. "

Yet, you don't accept Karaite Judaism is Judaism because it's different from the Judaism that you practice. Readers will view this as Dogmatism. To True Religious Practitioners Dogmatism is a Requirement and a Badge of Honour.

 

[Elihoenai]

It doesn't say anything about atheism or apostasy. You are literally inserting stuff into the text that is not there. This passage does not support your point.

Here is the passage for your reference.
"If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, that will not hearken to the voice of his father and [not "or"] the voice of his mother and though they chasten him, will not hearken unto them, then shall his father and his mother lay hold of him and bring him out unto the elders of his city… They shall say unto the elders of his city: This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he doth not hearken to our voice, he is a glutton and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones that he die; so shalt thou put away the evil from the midst of thee; and all Israel shall hear, and fear" (Deut. 21:18–21).

Deuteronomy 13:6-11

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.



The Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Holy Scripture is part of the Law of Moses. The parents of the Rebellious Son observe the Law of Moses and would put their Son to death before they become Atheist or Apostate. Deuteronomy 13:6-11 is another example showing that Atheist or Apostates are Not Allowed to Live in Israel. Israelites that turn to Atheism or become Apostate are put to death in the Hebrew Scriptures.

 

[Elihoenai]

Yes, because have been influenced by Protestant thinking.

However, sola scriptura is actually contrary to Torah: God grants incredible authority to the Levites and Judges (rabbis) to interpret the law, even giving the death penalty if anyone questions their rulings. Thus we have the establishment of the authority of Oral Torah right there in the Torah. Deuteronomy 17:

8If a matter eludes you in judgment, between blood and blood, between judgment and judgment, or between lesion and lesion, words of dispute in your cities, then you shall rise and go up to the place the Lord, your God, chooses.		חכִּ֣י יִפָּלֵא֩ מִמְּךָ֨ דָבָ֜ר לַמִּשְׁפָּ֗ט בֵּֽין־דָּ֨ם | לְדָ֜ם בֵּֽין־דִּ֣ין לְדִ֗ין וּבֵ֥ין נֶ֨גַע֙ לָנֶ֔גַע דִּבְרֵ֥י רִיבֹ֖ת בִּשְׁעָרֶ֑יךָ וְקַמְתָּ֣ וְעָלִ֔יתָ אֶל־הַ֨מָּק֔וֹם אֲשֶׁ֥ר יִבְחַ֛ר יְהֹוָ֥ה אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ בּֽוֹ:
9And you shall come to the Levitic kohanim and to the judge who will be in those days, and you shall inquire, and they will tell you the words of judgment.		טוּבָאתָ֗ אֶל־הַכֹּֽהֲנִים֙ הַֽלְוִיִּ֔ם וְאֶל־הַ֨שֹּׁפֵ֔ט אֲשֶׁ֥ר יִֽהְיֶ֖ה בַּיָּמִ֣ים הָהֵ֑ם וְדָֽרַשְׁתָּ֙ וְהִגִּ֣ידוּ לְךָ֔ אֵ֖ת דְּבַ֥ר הַמִּשְׁפָּֽט:
10And you shall do according to the word they tell you, from the place the Lord will choose, and you shall observe to do according to all they instruct you.		יוְעָשִׂ֗יתָ עַל־פִּ֤י הַדָּבָר֙ אֲשֶׁ֣ר יַגִּ֣ידוּ לְךָ֔ מִן־הַמָּק֣וֹם הַה֔וּא אֲשֶׁ֖ר יִבְחַ֣ר יְהֹוָ֑ה וְשָֽׁמַרְתָּ֣ לַֽעֲשׂ֔וֹת כְּכֹ֖ל אֲשֶׁ֥ר יוֹרֽוּךָ:
11According to the law they instruct you and according to the judgment they say to you, you shall do; you shall not divert from the word they tell you, either right or left.		יאעַל־פִּ֨י הַתּוֹרָ֜ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר יוֹר֗וּךָ וְעַל־הַמִּשְׁפָּ֛ט אֲשֶׁר־יֹֽאמְר֥וּ לְךָ֖ תַּֽעֲשֶׂ֑ה לֹ֣א תָס֗וּר מִן־הַדָּבָ֛ר אֲשֶׁר־יַגִּ֥ידוּ לְךָ֖ יָמִ֥ין וּשְׂמֹֽאל:
12And the man who acts intentionally, not obeying the kohen who stands there to serve the Lord, your God, or to the judge that man shall die, and you shall abolish evil from Israel.		יבוְהָאִ֞ישׁ אֲשֶׁר־יַֽעֲשֶׂ֣ה בְזָד֗וֹן לְבִלְתִּ֨י שְׁמֹ֤עַ אֶל־הַכֹּהֵן֙ הָֽעֹמֵ֞ד לְשָׁ֤רֶת שָׁם֙ אֶת־יְהֹוָ֣ה אֱלֹהֶ֔יךָ א֖וֹ אֶל־הַשֹּׁפֵ֑ט וּמֵת֙ הָאִ֣ישׁ הַה֔וּא וּבִֽעַרְתָּ֥ הָרָ֖ע מִיִּשְׂרָאֵֽל:
13And all the people shall listen and fear, and they shall no longer act wantonly.		יגוְכָל־הָעָ֖ם יִשְׁמְע֣וּ וְיִרָ֑אוּ וְלֹ֥א יְזִיד֖וּן עֽוֹד:

I Am in Total Agreement with the Holy Scriptures in Deuteronomy 17. Yet, what happens when there are False Priests making False Proclamations from their Evil Heart? Are you able to identify these False Priests? In Judaism there are False Priests like in Roman Catholicism with the Pedophile Priests.

 

[Elihoenai]

Oh, I fully understand that the New Testament refers to a kind of spiritual Jew. Romans 2:29 says, "29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God." Sometimes this belief by Christians is attached to Replacement Theology, and sometimes it is not.

My point is that no such concept as spiritual Israel exists in the Tanakh. It is one of many false teachings that Christians have.

Furthermore, any time this Christian belief is used to go further to "This means that Christians are the true Jews, and the descendants of Abraham are fake Jews," (aka Replacement Theology) we already know from 2000 years of church history that this is a dangerous idea that is attached to the persecution and killing of Jews.

I Am Asserting Spiritual Israel and Fleshly Israel with Christians becoming Spiritual Israel through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Elihoenai, like dybmh said, you can become an Israelite if you are ardent enough and nothing else satisfies you, though you may be of any religion (currently you are a Christian) or any race (that I do not know). There is no bar that a Christian cannot join the House of Yakoob, beloved of YHWH.

 

[dybmh]

Yes, Evil is Cursed. Elohim/God is Omni. Elohim/God is the Creator of All Things and Is All Things. You, @dybmh, Believe in a Limited Elohim/God just like most of the Christians.

"You, @dybmh, Believe in a Limited Elohim/God just like most of the Christians." <--- False. I never said that.

I said: God creates evil and curses it. This means God does not have an evil side. God cannot possess an evil side if it is being cursed. That is not a limitation it is a choice.

Omnipotence

Omnipotence is the quality of having unlimited power. Monotheistic religions generally attribute omnipotence only to the deity of their faith. In the monotheistic religious philosophy of Abrahamic religions, omnipotence is often listed as one of a deity's characteristics, along with omniscience, omnipresence, and omnibenevolence. The presence of all these properties in a single entity has given rise to considerable theological debate, prominently including the problem of evil, the question of why such a deity would permit the existence of evil. It is accepted in philosophy and science that omnipotence can never be effectively understood.

I know what omnipotence is. Creating evil AND cursing it, banishing it, is executing unlimited power.

not trying to persuade you otherwise from your Judaic Religious perspective. Showing you why for Christians there is Spiritual Israel. The New Testament is Holy Scripture and Absolute Authority for Christians.

Does the author of Epheisians or Romans ever claim to be speaking in God's name?

Christian Gnostics Desire the Same Power Yeshua/Jesus has. Christian Gnostics Become Yeshua/Jesus.

I don't blame you for wanting it. But I think that sort of desire is a demon and it corrupts the heart/soul/psyche. No one will ever be a yeshua while possessing that demon. It is self-defeating. They are causing the problem not solving it. They are conjuring demons not banishing them.

Yes, Certainly, Christian Gnosticism is all about attaining the Power of Elohim/God by Becoming One with Elohim/God. Elohim/God has made me Morally Superior to you Being a Christian Monk practising Asceticism. Moses is an Ascetic. No doubt you, @dybmh, are having Sex, Eating Meat and Drinking Alcohol for example.

"Christian Gnosticism is all about attaining the Power" <--- Note: It's not about serving God. It's a selfish self-centered desire.

"attaining the Power of Elohim/God by Becoming One with Elohim/God" <--- Satan wants to be equal with God.

"Elohim/God has made me Morally Superior to you" <--- I don't steal. But you have no problem with it. I don't try to over-wriite the word of God with my own selfish desires. But you have no problem with it. But you think that abstaining from sex and meat makes that OK? Not even close.

"Moses is an Ascetic" <--- Moses had children. Moses ate meat when he showed the levites how to do the ritual. This is yet another example where YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

​

10:17​

מדוע לא־אכלתם את־החטאת במקום הקדש כי קדש קדשים הוא ואתה נתן לכם לשאת את־עון העדה לכפר עליהם לפני יהוה׃​

​

Why have you not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God has given it to you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?​

​

10:18​

הן לא־הובא את־דמה אל־הקדש פנימה אכול תאכלו אתה בקדש כאשר צויתי׃​

​

Behold, its blood was not brought inside the holy place; you should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.​

"No doubt you, @dybmh, are having Sex, Eating Meat and Drinking Alcohol for example."

Not in excess, but I do fullfill my duties to my wife, and to God. It is a commandment to delight in the Lord on festivals and on the Sabbath. That includes meat and alcohol and perhaps pleasing my wife if that is her desire. It's called Oneg.​

Isaiah

​

58:13​

אם־תשיב משבת רגלך עשות חפציך ביום קדשי וקראת לשבת ענג לקדוש יהוה מכבד וכבדתו מעשות דרכיך ממצוא חפצך ודבר דבר׃​

​

If you restrain your foot because of the sabbath, from pursuing your business on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable; and shall honor it, not doing your own ways, nor pursuing your own business, nor speaking of vain matters;​

​

58:14​

אז תתענג על־יהוה והרכבתיך על־במותי ארץ והאכלתיך נחלת יעקב אביך כי פי יהוה דבר׃​

​

Then shall you delight yourself in the Lord; and I will cause you to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.​

Job 19:26

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Don't forget about the first part. After the flesh is destroyed... then it is seen.

I've been Asserting continually on these Forums that Every Person on the Planet is Elohim/God. Therefore, you are contradicting and confusing yourself when you say Elohim/God cannot be Evil. Apart from a Few hundred/thousand Elect, every person on the Planet are Evil Children of the Devil/Satan. The Satan/Devil is Elohim/God in its Lowest Form. Devil/Satan is Elohim/God Flesh. Elohim/God is Flesh, Soul and Spirit.

"when you say Elohim/God cannot be Evil" <--- I didn't say that. I said that Evil is created and cursed which means that God does not have an evil side. If it was not cursed, then God could have an evil side. Because it is cursed, God cannot have an evil side.

"I've been Asserting continually" <--- the only reason to listen is if they are already possessed by a power seeking demon

"Apart from a Few hundred/thousand Elect..." <---- blah blah blah, all of this is just the demon asserting itself. I have no reason to listen to it.

"Devil/Satan is Elohim/God Flesh. Elohim/God is Flesh, Soul and Spirit." <--- words from a forked-tongue.

You just admitted your god is Satan.

Genesis 3:5

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

To be tempted by the serpent is natural. It's human.

But, it's foolish to be fixated on the tree of knowledge when the tree of life is standing right in front of your face. You do realize that the tree of life and the tree of knowledge were right next to each other, right? Eve was standing right in front of it but was capitvated by "desire".

ויצמח יהוה אלהים מן־האדמה כל־עץ נחמד למראה וטוב למאכל ועץ החיים בתוך הגן ועץ הדעת טוב ורע׃​

And out of the ground made the Lord God every tree to grow that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.​

The trees were right next to each other.

ותרא האשה כי טוב העץ למאכל וכי תאוה־הוא לעינים ונחמד העץ להשכיל ותקח מפריו ותאכל ותתן גם־לאישה עמה ויאכל׃​

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit, and ate, and gave also to her husband with her; and he ate.​

Desire was the reason that Eve took and ate. Desire is a demon. If it is put in a box, and moderated, it's OK, it's harmless. When it convinces a person to steal, lie, cheat, murder, harm themself and others, try to become a god, assert themself as superior... Desire is not-good.

You are making the same mistake that Eve made. The desire was so strong, all she heard was the words of the serpent. "You can be like God". "You can be wise". "This is what others desire, you should desire it too." It is a tree to be desired. To be desired by others, therefore it is desireable to her. Do you see how this is *THEFT*?

They want it. I want it too. They want to be God's chosen. I want it too. They want a special relationship with God. I want it to. Yeshua has power. I want power too. God is omnipotent. I want to be ominpotent too.

What does Satan say? "You're worshipping God?" "I want to be worshipped too".

The point is Elohim/God has made Worldly Intelligent people Eyes Wide Shut. Your are Eyes Wide Shut.

Nonsense. Think about this. Use your brain. The serpent is the one who says "your eyes will be opened". 1) Why should you or anyone trust the serpent? 2) Obviously Eve's eyes were already open. She could see the tree in front of her.

The serpent introduced doubt in Eve's mind. But there was no reason to doubt. Their eyes were already open. Besides I am a child of Eve. I know good and evil. I have eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge. That's how I'm able to see right through you. But I also have access to the tree of life. So you cannot tempt me with any of the serpentine promises, and double-speak.

I have what you desire, but I will never give it you.

Eyes Wide Shut

I am not watching any of your Satanic video recommendations.

Are you able to identify these False Priests?

Definitely. Among other things, they're the ones who desire power. One of the Rabbis I learn with frequently talks about this. He says he does not understand why anyone would desire power. It's a huge responsibility, and it's a relief that God is in charge. He does not want the power, and neither do I. It is a burden.

Those who seek God's power are the least worthy of recieving it.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I Am in Total Agreement with the Holy Scriptures in Deuteronomy 17. Yet, what happens when there are False Priests making False Proclamations from their Evil Heart? Are you able to identify these False Priests? In Judaism there are False Priests like in Roman Catholicism with the Pedophile Priests.

In Judaism, priests are the descendants of Aaron. They either have this paternal descent or they don't. I have no idea what a "false priest" would be. Someone who lies and says they are a descendent of Aaron but are not?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Deuteronomy 13:6-11

6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;

7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;

8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:

9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.

10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.

11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.



The Deuteronomy 21:18-21 Holy Scripture is part of the Law of Moses. The parents of the Rebellious Son observe the Law of Moses and would put their Son to death before they become Atheist or Apostate. Deuteronomy 13:6-11 is another example showing that Atheist or Apostates are Not Allowed to Live in Israel. Israelites that turn to Atheism or become Apostate are put to death in the Hebrew Scriptures.

The penalty in the Torah for idolatry was death. I'm not sure why you think that has anything to do with whether someone is a Jew or not.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yet, you don't accept Karaite Judaism is Judaism because it's different from the Judaism that you practice. Readers will view this as Dogmatism. To True Religious Practitioners Dogmatism is a Requirement and a Badge of Honour.

Not really the same. Karaism is not Judaism. That doesn't mean they are bad people. They worship God and behave ethically. If I knew such a Jew in real life, I would try to encourage them to return to Judaism, the covenant of our People. But I wouldn't think they would be "going to hell" or any of the sorts of things that dogmatic people believe.

 

[Elihoenai]

Elihoenai, like dybmh said, you can become an Israelite if you are ardent enough and nothing else satisfies you, though you may be of any religion (currently you are a Christian) or any race (that I do not know). There is no bar that a Christian cannot join the House of Yakoob, beloved of YHWH.

I Am Christian Gnostic with Totally Different perspective from @dybmh. Christians Become Israelites through Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. Me and @dybmh are on Absolute Opposite Religious Spectrums from one another. Christianity, Islam and Judaism are Left-Hand Path Religions for Elohim's/God's Earthly Kingdom.


Gnosticism

Gnosticism (from Ancient Greek: γνωστικός, romanized: gnōstikós, Koine Greek: [ɣnostiˈkos], 'having knowledge') is a collection of religious ideas and systems that coalesced in the late 1st century AD among Jewish and early Christian sects. These various groups emphasized personal spiritual knowledge (gnosis) above the proto-orthodox teachings, traditions, and authority of religious institutions.

Gnosticism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Gnosticism, the Enduring Heresy

 

[Elihoenai]

"You, @dybmh, Believe in a Limited Elohim/God just like most of the Christians." <--- False. I never said that.

I said: God creates evil and curses it. This means God does not have an evil side. God cannot possess an evil side if it is being cursed. That is not a limitation it is a choice.

Therefore, the Elohim/God you believe is Not Omni. Given that you Believe that Elohim/God cannot be Evil you have placed Limitations on Elohim/God. There is Nothing that the True Elohim/God cannot Be or Do. The True Elohim/God is Unlimited. You are confused like the Christians that say Elohim/God is Omni and cannot be Evil. If the Elohim/God that you and Christians believe in Cannot be Evil than the Elohim/God you Believe in is Not Omni. You and Christians are seeing the True Unlimited Elohim/God in a Limited Way.

I know what omnipotence is. Creating evil AND cursing it, banishing it, is executing unlimited power.

There is Good Power and there is Evil Power. Elohim/God is Good Power and Evil Power. That is Omnipotence.

Does the author of Epheisians or Romans ever claim to be speaking in God's name?

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


All Holy Scripture from Genesis to Revelation is Inspired of Elohim/God Speaking in Elohim's/God's Name.

I don't blame you for wanting it. But I think that sort of desire is a demon and it corrupts the heart/soul/psyche. No one will ever be a yeshua while possessing that demon. It is self-defeating. They are causing the problem not solving it. They are conjuring demons not banishing them.

Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ is Perfect and Sinless. Striving to Become Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ cast out demons. You appear to be ignorant about the Demons that you have.

"Christian Gnosticism is all about attaining the Power" <--- Note: It's not about serving God. It's a selfish self-centered desire.

"attaining the Power of Elohim/God by Becoming One with Elohim/God" <--- Satan wants to be equal with God.

"Elohim/God has made me Morally Superior to you" <--- I don't steal. But you have no problem with it. I don't try to over-wriite the word of God with my own selfish desires. But you have no problem with it. But you think that abstaining from sex and meat makes that OK? Not even close.

"Moses is an Ascetic" <--- Moses had children. Moses ate meat when he showed the levites how to do the ritual. This is yet another example where YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT.

​

10:17​

מדוע לא־אכלתם את־החטאת במקום הקדש כי קדש קדשים הוא ואתה נתן לכם לשאת את־עון העדה לכפר עליהם לפני יהוה׃​

​

Why have you not eaten the sin offering in the holy place, seeing it is most holy, and God has given it to you to bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the Lord?​

​

10:18​

הן לא־הובא את־דמה אל־הקדש פנימה אכול תאכלו אתה בקדש כאשר צויתי׃​

​

Behold, its blood was not brought inside the holy place; you should indeed have eaten it in the holy place, as I commanded.​

"No doubt you, @dybmh, are having Sex, Eating Meat and Drinking Alcohol for example."

Not in excess, but I do fullfill my duties to my wife, and to God. It is a commandment to delight in the Lord on festivals and on the Sabbath. That includes meat and alcohol and perhaps pleasing my wife if that is her desire. It's called Oneg.​

Isaiah

​

58:13​

אם־תשיב משבת רגלך עשות חפציך ביום קדשי וקראת לשבת ענג לקדוש יהוה מכבד וכבדתו מעשות דרכיך ממצוא חפצך ודבר דבר׃​

​

If you restrain your foot because of the sabbath, from pursuing your business on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy day of the Lord honorable; and shall honor it, not doing your own ways, nor pursuing your own business, nor speaking of vain matters;​

​

58:14​

אז תתענג על־יהוה והרכבתיך על־במותי ארץ והאכלתיך נחלת יעקב אביך כי פי יהוה דבר׃​

​

Then shall you delight yourself in the Lord; and I will cause you to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken it.​

1) Serving Elohim/God Is Power. Elohim/God Is Power.

2) Yes, Satan wants to be Equal With Elohim/God.

3) It's Not Stealing from a Christians perspective because Christians Being Spiritual Israel is taught in the New Testament.

4) The Moses that you see has Sex, Eats Meat and Drinks Alcohol. Being Christian Gnostic I see a Different Moses.

5) The Judaism that you practice is Ordained by Elohim/God for Elohim's/God's Earthly Kingdom.

Don't forget about the first part. After the flesh is destroyed... then it is seen.

Isaiah 40:6

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:


Therefore, the Flesh is Weak. All Flesh is Grass. You are enjoying what passeth away like dust in the wind.

"when you say Elohim/God cannot be Evil" <--- I didn't say that. I said that Evil is created and cursed which means that God does not have an evil side. If it was not cursed, then God could have an evil side. Because it is cursed, God cannot have an evil side.

"I've been Asserting continually" <--- the only reason to listen is if they are already possessed by a power seeking demon

"Apart from a Few hundred/thousand Elect..." <---- blah blah blah, all of this is just the demon asserting itself. I have no reason to listen to it.

"Devil/Satan is Elohim/God Flesh. Elohim/God is Flesh, Soul and Spirit." <--- words from a forked-tongue.

You just admitted your god is Satan.

I have Asserted Continually the Truth that Elohim/God is Omni. Elohim/God Is the Creator of All Things and Is All Things. Therefore, Satan must be Elohim/God because there is Nothing that Exists Outside of the True Elohim/God. It appears you and Christians cannot understand this.

To be tempted by the serpent is natural. It's human.

But, it's foolish to be fixated on the tree of knowledge when the tree of life is standing right in front of your face. You do realize that the tree of life and the tree of knowledge were right next to each other, right? Eve was standing right in front of it but was capitvated by "desire".

ויצמח יהוה אלהים מן־האדמה כל־עץ נחמד למראה וטוב למאכל ועץ החיים בתוך הגן ועץ הדעת טוב ורע׃​

And out of the ground made the Lord God every tree to grow that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.​

The trees were right next to each other.

ותרא האשה כי טוב העץ למאכל וכי תאוה־הוא לעינים ונחמד העץ להשכיל ותקח מפריו ותאכל ותתן גם־לאישה עמה ויאכל׃​

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit, and ate, and gave also to her husband with her; and he ate.​

Desire was the reason that Eve took and ate. Desire is a demon. If it is put in a box, and moderated, it's OK, it's harmless. When it convinces a person to steal, lie, cheat, murder, harm themself and others, try to become a god, assert themself as superior... Desire is not-good.

You are making the same mistake that Eve made. The desire was so strong, all she heard was the words of the serpent. "You can be like God". "You can be wise". "This is what others desire, you should desire it too." It is a tree to be desired. To be desired by others, therefore it is desireable to her. Do you see how this is *THEFT*?

They want it. I want it too. They want to be God's chosen. I want it too. They want a special relationship with God. I want it to. Yeshua has power. I want power too. God is omnipotent. I want to be ominpotent too.

What does Satan say? "You're worshipping God?" "I want to be worshipped too".

*Staff Edit* If a person didn't have any desire they wouldn't get up in the morning. There is Good Desire and there is Evil Desire. All Desire is from Elohim/God.

Nonsense. Think about this. Use your brain. The serpent is the one who says "your eyes will be opened". 1) Why should you or anyone trust the serpent? 2) Obviously Eve's eyes were already open. She could see the tree in front of her.

The serpent introduced doubt in Eve's mind. But there was no reason to doubt. Their eyes were already open. Besides I am a child of Eve. I know good and evil. I have eaten the fruit of the tree of knowledge. That's how I'm able to see right through you. But I also have access to the tree of life. So you cannot tempt me with any of the serpentine promises, and double-speak.

I have what you desire, but I will never give it you.

You appear to be not thinking at all. The reason why people have false doctrines and different interpretations of Holy Scripture is because they ae seeing that they want to see. This is Ordained by Elohim/God.

I am not watching any of your Satanic video recommendations.

The Eyes Wide Shut film trailers is for other readers of this thread also.

Definitely. Among other things, they're the ones who desire power. One of the Rabbis I learn with frequently talks about this. He says he does not understand why anyone would desire power. It's a huge responsibility, and it's a relief that God is in charge. He does not want the power, and neither do I. It is a burden.

Those who seek God's power are the least worthy of recieving it.

*STAFF EDIT* Your teacher wants you to be Impotent/Powerless to maintain Subservience to him. Your teacher has Power over you because Elohim/God has given him this Power over you. Elohim/God Is Power. Elohim/God Wants his Servants to be Powerful.

 

[Elihoenai]

In Judaism, priests are the descendants of Aaron. They either have this paternal descent or they don't. I have no idea what a "false priest" would be. Someone who lies and says they are a descendent of Aaron but are not?

Are the Priests that are Really Descendants of Aaron Infallible? Do Priests that are Really Descendants of Aaron Claim Infallibility? If they Claim Infallibility that would be the same as Papal Infallibility.


Papal infallibility

Papal infallibility is a dogma of the Catholic Church which states that, in virtue of the promise of Jesus to Peter, the Pope when he speaks ex cathedra is preserved from the possibility of error on doctrine "initially given to the apostolic Church and handed down in Scripture and tradition".[1] It does not mean that the pope cannot sin or otherwise err in most situations.

Papal infallibility - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Elihoenai]

The penalty in the Torah for idolatry was death. I'm not sure why you think that has anything to do with whether someone is a Jew or not.

Yes, the Penalty in the Torah for Idolatry is death. Atheism and Apostasy is Idolatry because Worshipping Other Elohim/Gods. The point Being made is that Atheists and Apostates do Not Exist in Israel because they are put to Death. Therefore, no such thing as an Atheist Jew and Apostate Jew Living in Israel as Elohim/God Commanded in Torah.

The Truth is that none of the practitioners of Judaism are Really keeping the Law of Moses, otherwise Atheists and Apostates would be put to death.

 

[Elihoenai]

Not really the same. Karaism is not Judaism. That doesn't mean they are bad people. They worship God and behave ethically. If I knew such a Jew in real life, I would try to encourage them to return to Judaism, the covenant of our People. But I wouldn't think they would be "going to hell" or any of the sorts of things that dogmatic people believe.

You believe that you are Right and Karaite Practitioners of Judaism are Wrong. You don't accept that what the Karaites practice is Judaism. You believe that the Judaism that you practice is the Right one. Do you believe that there is only one True Judaism?

 

[rosends]

Are the Priests that are Really Descendants of Aaron Infallible? Do Priests that are Really Descendants of Aaron Claim Infallibility? If they Claim Infallibility that would be the same as Papal Infallibility.

Judaism makes no claim to any infallibility. You might want to study the talmudic tractate Horayot

Horayot - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Aupmanyav]

Me and @dybmh are on Absolute Opposite Religious Spectrums from one another.

Good, I suppose then there is less to fight out whatever they are.
"You have your way, and he has his Way.” a-la-Surah Kafirun
I neither follow Judaism nor Christian Gnosticism.