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Why Son of Man?
- Thread starter Dimi95
- Start date
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
It's from the book of Enoch. This was a well known story in that era. Jesus was considering himself as this foretold savior.
Here's a free version. Search for "Son of Man".
Hopefully this link works. It directs to archive.org. LINK. The PDF allows for searching the text easily. There's 19 occurrences. Here's the first 2.
Here's a free version. Search for "Son of Man".
Hopefully this link works. It directs to archive.org. LINK. The PDF allows for searching the text easily. There's 19 occurrences. Here's the first 2.
Wikipedia has a good discussion of that and similar phrases from pre-Christian, Jewish, scripture: Son of man - Wikipedia
The Hebrew expression "son of man" (בן–אדם, ben-'adam) appears 107 times in the Hebrew Bible, the majority (93 times) in the Book of Ezekiel.[1] It is used in three main ways: as a form of address (Ezekiel); to contrast the lowly status of humanity against the permanence and exalted dignity of God and the angels (Numbers 23:19, Psalm 8:4); and as a future eschatological figure whose coming will signal the end of history and the time of God's judgment (Daniel 7:13–14).[2]
...
The Hebrew expression "son of man" (בן–אדם, ben-'adam) appears 107 times in the Hebrew Bible, the majority (93 times) in the Book of Ezekiel.[1] It is used in three main ways: as a form of address (Ezekiel); to contrast the lowly status of humanity against the permanence and exalted dignity of God and the angels (Numbers 23:19, Psalm 8:4); and as a future eschatological figure whose coming will signal the end of history and the time of God's judgment (Daniel 7:13–14).[2]
...
Dimi95
Χριστός ἀνέστη
First , Hi @dybmh , hope that you had wonderfull holiday.
Glad that you replied.
You can write something more about it , i would like to hear it.
How do you see this "Son of Man" as Jew?
(This is my first interaction with people about these kind of things , that's why i ask so luch
) I don't know how you see it , i know something about Judaism , but not much , probably that something is my own version of Jews , plus some videos of Ben Shapiro.I wanted to read the Book that you gaved me , but i have been focused on science recently, so still i don't know much.I was mit Muslims most of my life , so i just wan't to know how everyone else think.
I like to read and research a lot.
It helps me understand more when i see people's perspective.
I have found some good advice in seeing things from neutral perspective , and science is the best tool for it.
I want to hear critics , it doesn't matter what and from who.
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InChrist
Free4ever
I think Son of man, as well as, Son of God are titles of Jesus Christ in the scriptures to show that He is both fully human and fully God.
Dimi95
Χριστός ἀνέστη
Why the ressurection , why to come as a sacrificial lamb , why to expose himself like that.
He didn't come in peace literally.
I have discovered something about Son of Man , it's very interesting and very scary at the same time for me.I don't know if is it smart to share it.Some strange but very deep motiv.
I just need to read the Bible from the begining with much more questions and if that stands at the end , i am going to tell it,but not here.
The reason i am saying this is because i am tested and i recognize pattern better then 99% of people.
I don't lie.
It's very different from what we Christians know, but it's the same , by my understanding - even better.
But those claims are very taugh to be said like that..
So i need time and different opinions and ideas.
It would be very helpfull to me if more people will say more about it.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
InChrist
Free4ever
Maybe you would be interested in this…
What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man? Is “Son of Man” a Messianic title or does it mean that Jesus was truly a human being, or both?
www.gotquestions.org
Yokefellow
Active Member
It is associated with those who have received the Holy Spirit...
Ezekiel 2:1-2
"And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me."
God begins to call Ezekiel 'Son of Man' after that.
Look at Daniel...
Daniel 8:17-19
"So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be."
The Holy Ghost teaches and brings things to remembrance.
The phrase 'Son of Man' is also a way of referencing those who are Saved.
It also refers to Abraham's Seed and the Promise...
Galatians 3:16
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
Ultimately, the phrase 'Son of Man' has a 'Born Again' theme to it.
Look at the Book of Enoch post from @dybmh .
"With whom dwelleth righteousness"
"The LORD of Spirits hath chosen him..."
See the pattern? It is all about those receiving the Holy Spirit.
Ezekiel 2:1-2
"And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me."
God begins to call Ezekiel 'Son of Man' after that.
Look at Daniel...
Daniel 8:17-19
"So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be."
The Holy Ghost teaches and brings things to remembrance.
The phrase 'Son of Man' is also a way of referencing those who are Saved.
It also refers to Abraham's Seed and the Promise...
Galatians 3:16
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
Ultimately, the phrase 'Son of Man' has a 'Born Again' theme to it.
Look at the Book of Enoch post from @dybmh .
"With whom dwelleth righteousness"
"The LORD of Spirits hath chosen him..."
See the pattern? It is all about those receiving the Holy Spirit.
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Every human Being is a ‘Son of Man’.It is associated with those who have received the Holy Spirit...
Ezekiel 2:1-2
"And he said unto me, Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak unto thee. And the spirit entered into me when he spake unto me, and set me upon my feet, that I heard him that spake unto me."
God begins to call Ezekiel 'Son of Man' after that.
Look at Daniel...
Daniel 8:17-19
"So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision. Now as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep on my face toward the ground: but he touched me, and set me upright. And he said, Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in the last end of the indignation: for at the time appointed the end shall be."
The Holy Ghost teaches and brings things to remembrance.
The phrase 'Son of Man' is also a way of referencing those who are Saved.
It also refers to Abraham's Seed and the Promise...
Galatians 3:16
"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ."
Ultimately, the phrase 'Son of Man' has a 'Born Again' theme to it.
Look at the Book of Enoch post from @dybmh .
"With whom dwelleth righteousness"
"The LORD of Spirits hath chosen him..."
See the pattern? It is all about those receiving the Holy Spirit.
‘Son of Man’ exactly means, ‘A Human Being’… A person who lives the life of a human.
But, in contrast, ‘Son of God’ means: ‘Anyone (Human or Angel) who does the Will of God’.
Jesus therefore is both ‘Son of God’ and ‘Son of Man’ since he lives the life of a human being and also does the Will of God.
This above is not the same as Trinitarians claim: That Jesus is LITERALLY an off-spring of God (or a COPY … as in IMAGE!!) or IS ALMIGHTY GOD, himself!!! Notice always that no trinitarian can ever justify their trinitarian claims from the scriptures but only claim justification from trinitarian TEACHINGS ALONE.
Jesus calls himself ‘Son of Man’… Jesus was able to forgive sins and the Jews were astonished and lacked understanding of Jesus’ words, an example of which is:
- “The Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins." MARK 2:10
Wrong, wrong, wrong…! What is true is this:
- A sin by Man ‘A’ against Man ‘B’ can only be forgive by Man ‘B’
- A sin against God by any Man can only be forgiven BY GOD
But in addition, GOD can forgive a sin of a Man against another Man IF the sinning Man is fervently penitent enough to God but cannot access the Man whom he sinned against or the man sinned against cannot reach the man who sinned him. In other words, God CAN act directly as a surrogate in certain situations as long as the sinner is reverently penetrant. However, ultimately, all forgiveness will end at the footstool of God as forgiving your brother man means being truthful and honest in Godliness… An Apostle wrote:
- “… be kind to each other, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God through Christ has forgiven you.” (Ephesians 4:32)
- “For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.” (Matthew 6:14)
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The expression "Son of man" is applied to Ezekiel as a prophet of God 93 times. However, the title is different. In Ezekiel, the Hebrew Adam is used as a noun for "man", and reflects an imperfect human being used for God's purposes. A son of Adam is a man who inherited the genetic imperfection from his sinner human first father.
Jesus is not a direct son of Adam in the sense of having inherited from him that imperfection, since he was protected by God to fulfill an assignment similar to Adam when he was perfect: to show that he can be obedient to God even in the flesh. In Dan. 7:13 the Aramaic term Anash is used to talk about a human by nature.
Jesus is called "the second Adam" and he will become "Eternal Father" of the perfected human race in the future, instead of Adam which is the father of this imperfect human kind.
The title "Son of man" applied to the prophecies of the holy spirit, refer to a human being, choose by God, who opens the path to heaven and is enthroned there as King by Him.
Jesus is not a direct son of Adam in the sense of having inherited from him that imperfection, since he was protected by God to fulfill an assignment similar to Adam when he was perfect: to show that he can be obedient to God even in the flesh. In Dan. 7:13 the Aramaic term Anash is used to talk about a human by nature.
Jesus is called "the second Adam" and he will become "Eternal Father" of the perfected human race in the future, instead of Adam which is the father of this imperfect human kind.
The title "Son of man" applied to the prophecies of the holy spirit, refer to a human being, choose by God, who opens the path to heaven and is enthroned there as King by Him.
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Colt
Well-Known Member
Thats silly! If Son of man wasn't distinct from the average person them Jesus would just say "I" of every occasion he referred to himself.
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Apologies for the late reply.
As a Jewish person? I am tasked with spinning the concept around and around to look at it from all angles. After doing that, I think the gospels intend it to be an angel of sorts that will descend into purgatory to release the jewsh captives during jubilee. When Jesus spoke of the "son-of-man" he rarely / ever (?), if I recall, is directly referring to himself. So he's referring to an era of salvation that the common people were familair with. But it was intended literally.
If I spin the concept around and around, I can make it literal, but it gets a little contrived at that point. You may appreciate it as a form of divinization, but, instead of "Godliness" it is an angel / archetype that is filling the human vessel.
However, most Jewish people do not know the gospels, nor do they know the extra-biblical literature which describes the legend of the son-of-man. If you ask most Jewish people about the "son-of-man", they would probably answer, "who?"
Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Jesus said that he doesn’t glorify himself … so he speaks of himself in the third person (‘Son of Man’).
Tell me, when you get things so wrong and someone shows you the truth, does it make you feel that maybe you are thinking incorrectly about things??
Dimi95
Χριστός ἀνέστη
By law , Cain is the first one to sin , when he killed Abel.
I think that is connected somehow with "Son of Man".
He is literally Son of Man.
The second Son of Man , if you wan't to phrase it correctly.
I do think there is a connection in the Abrahamic Religions with the Old and the New Testament.
The three sons of Adam - Cain , Abel and Seth.
Adam had other sons , but the focus in Genesis is on these 3.
Yes , Jesus comes from the third line , but i think all of the three are connected with the comming of Jesus and the New Testament.
God's judgment on Cain is not ordinary.
Genesis 4:15-16
"But the Lord said to him, “Not so; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him.Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod,east of Eden."
Eve's sayings are also something to consider
Genesis 4:25-26
"Adam made love to his wife again, and she gave birth to a son and named him Seth, saying, God has granted me another child in place of Abel, since Cain killed him."
When i looked back at Genesis 4:1-2 i found something intresting.
Genesis 4:1-2
Cain and Abel
"Adam made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought fortha man.”Later she gave birth to his brother Abel."
Notice how Eve said something only for Cain.
So no one cares about Abel , but God did after Cain killed him:
The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground.Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand.When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”
God cuts his legacy as the firstborn by natural order
That's why i see something when i look at the main scene in the first sin.
Genesis 4:2-5
"Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil.In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord.And Abel also brought an offering—fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock.The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering,but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.
Then the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast?
If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.”
I don't see anywhere that God demands offering from the two but they chose by themselfs to do that and i think this is the first time God puts humankind to test.
Notice that Cain brings fruits and Abel brings fat portions of the firstborn of his flock.So there is a big difference in the offering.
Abel put life to death and he offered that to God.
He Chose Abel with a reason.
And i would probably assume that this passage is the first step against sin.
Notice what God told Cain before he killed Abel.
But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must rule over it.
When i look at this he clearly tells Cain what he should do.
But he did not obey his sayings and he killed his brother.
When Adam sinned he wasn't aware of knowledge , but Cain was aware.
He imherited that knowledge in natural order by his Father.
So i do think that Son of Man is more then a term.
It's pretty amazing how everything is different in the Bible when you have this in mind.
I am studying the Bible again because of Eve sayings when Seth was born.
No one cares for Abel , why?
Dimi95
Χριστός ἀνέστη
Your way of discussing is very annoying , you dismiss every argument different from yours.
Truth is relative , if you don't understand that , everything you try to prove will be false.
Jesus said : "I am the the Way , the truth and life."
And Jesus is the most discussed figure in the history of humankind.
He was not ordinary
He came in this world threw Spirit(not naturally) and with the knowledge of evil and good.
Adam came in existence NOT by natural order and with no knowledge.
So the creation of Adam and Jesus are not the same.
Jesus can't be the literall "Last Adam".
From creational perspective , it's false to claim this.
Jesus and Adam are different , it's more logical to claim the term "Son of Man" rather then "The Last Adam".
Jesus left remarkable teachings.
He was just not from here as he said that in :
Pilate and Jesus
John 18:33-37
"Pilate then went back inside the palace, summoned Jesus and asked him, “Are you the king of the Jews?”
“Is that your own idea,” Jesus asked,“or did others talk to you about me?”
“Am I a Jew?” Pilate replied.
“Your own people and chief priests handed you over to me. What is it you have done?”
Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
“You are a king, then!” said Pilate.
Jesus answered, “You say that I am a king. In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Everyone on the side of truth listens to me.”
What kingdom is there except Heavens?
Where God has his throne.
How can someone claim that?
He said "My kingdom" not "I am coming from a kingdom".
So you should re-question your belief, because you know that God in "Exodus 34:14" said:
"For you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God "
You clearly don't understand what is the Word of God.
He was acting like "God the most humble"
When i look at the Old Testament , Deuteronomy 32:30-43 , God is speaking like the most powerfull.
"How could one man chase a thousand,or two put ten thousand to flight,unless their Rock had sold them,unless the Lord had given them up?
For their rock is not like our Rock,as even our enemies concede.Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison,and their clusters with bitterness. Their wine is the venom of serpents,the deadly poison of cobras.
“Have I not kept this in reserve and sealed it in my vaults?
It is mine to avenge; I will repay.
In due time their foot will slip;
their day of disaster is near and their doom rushes upon them.”
The Lord will vindicate his people and relent concerning his servants when he sees their strength is gone and no one is left, slave or free.
He will say: “Now where are their gods, the rock they took refuge in,the gods who ate the fat of their sacrifices and drank the wine of their drink offerings?
Let them rise up to help you!
Let them give you shelter!
“See now that I myself am he!
There is no god besides me.
I put to death and I bring to life,I have wounded and I will heal,and no one can deliver out of my hand. I lift my hand to heaven and solemnly swear:
As surely as I live forever, when I sharpen my flashing sword and my hand grasps it in judgment,
I will take vengeance on my adversaries and repay those who hate me.
I will make my arrows drunk with blood,while my sword devours flesh:the blood of the slain and the captives, the heads of the enemy leaders.”
Rejoice, you nations, with his people,
for he will avenge the blood of his servants;he will take vengeance on his enemies and make atonement for his land and people."
You dismiss the importance of what Jesus claimed.
For me it's pretty amazing to see a living being transforming from one form to another
Here are some of the ways that energy can change (transform) from one type to another:
The Sun transforms nuclear energy into heat and light energy.
Our bodies convert chemical energy in our food into mechanical energy for us to move.
An electric fan transforms electrical energy into kinetic energy.
So for me It's incorrect to define Jesus as the "Last Adam".
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Soapy
Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
You have said so many things that are incorrect I don’t know where to start listing them from so I’ll just say …
Let me dismiss what you said about truth being relative….
Truth is not relative - Truth is ABSOLUTE!!!
Anything that is not truth is ultimately a lie.
Partial truth is deception.
Tell me that I am wrong - then show me by an example!
Jesus was taught by God: The Father. There is no better teacher than He for all He teaches is truth:
- “It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’…”
- ‘And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.’ (Luke 2:52)
- So Jesus said, “When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing on my own but [ I ] speak just what the Father has taught me.” (John 8:28) … and the Father speaks only truth!!
So Jesus is both the SECOND and THE LAST ‘Adam’:
- “So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.” (1 Cor 15:45)
- “The first man [Adam] was of the dust of the earth; the second man [Adam] is of heaven.” (1 Cor 15:47)
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Actually, that is not accurate.Maybe you would be interested in this…
What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man? | GotQuestions.org
What does it mean that Jesus is the Son of Man? Is “Son of Man” a Messianic title or does it mean that Jesus was truly a human being, or both?www.gotquestions.org
Dimi95
Χριστός ἀνέστη
False
Philosophical relativism posits that what is defined as truth depends on circumstances and is subject to change. Some believe that the existence of relative truth does not necessarily preclude absolute truth, or vice versa, although even this is contested in some circles.
So you are saying that the Apsolute can't change over time.You are putting limits , remember!
It's not about "doesn't have to" , but rather "can God be like that"
God is not that kind of Apsolute
God is an Apsolute and adjusts on the relative.
That's why he is All powerfull.