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Italy: Far-Right Prime Minister's Attack on LGBT Rights

Secret Chief

nirvana is samsara
"Italy's right-wing government instructed Milan's city council to stop registering the children of same-sex parents, reigniting a debate around Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's conservative agenda.
Families, activists and political opponents are to protest against the ban in Milan on Saturday.
Ms Meloni, who leads the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBT rhetoric a cornerstone of her electoral campaign, promising to protect traditional values."

- Italy leaves children of same-sex parents in limbo

Who needs equality? Catholics and Conservatives Unite!
 

Altfish

Veteran Member
"Italy's right-wing government instructed Milan's city council to stop registering the children of same-sex parents, reigniting a debate around Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's conservative agenda.
Families, activists and political opponents are to protest against the ban in Milan on Saturday.
Ms Meloni, who leads the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBT rhetoric a cornerstone of her electoral campaign, promising to protect traditional values."

- Italy leaves children of same-sex parents in limbo

Who needs equality? Catholics and Conservatives Unite!
What is wrong with the world?
These politicians (and their supporters) are despicable
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Our juridical system is secular.
I would like to know what makes this journalist think Catholicism played a role in our jurisprudence.

LGBT is a juridical expression, which relies on juridical definition. The law prefers to establish borders and limits, so each definition cannot be overruled by a new definition, according to the trends and the fashion of the moment.
And secularly, the law necessarily means to discourage homosexuals and transsexuals from being parents.
For countless reasons, which involve a secular mindset and not a religious one.

That said, there are same-sex families in Italy. And they are respected. But the law needs to discourage something which contradicts jusnaturalism.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
That said, there are same-sex families in Italy. And they are respected. But the law needs to discourage something which contradicts jusnaturalism.
Umm same sex “couples” raising offspring occur in the wild naturally.
Like all the time. What?

As humans are apes and more specifically very closely related to bonobos, you could probably make an argument that the default natural state for our species is actually bisexual.
Just saying lol. :shrug:
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Umm same sex “couples” raising offspring occur in the wild naturally.
Like all the time. What?

As humans are apes and more specifically very closely related to bonobos, you could probably make an argument that the default natural state for our species is actually bisexual.
Just saying lol. :shrug:
I am for adoption of children by gay couples. :)

But...I don't think that creating babies through alternatives methods is a good idea. Just that.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
For example, if two men who are married and want to become parents, they usually have no other alternative than the surrogate pregnancy.
That is they pay a woman so she can deliver their child.
I don't think it's ethical, and by the way, it is illegal in my country.
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Some do it the old fashioned way. One of them find a man and have sex. When then asked who the farther is, the woman answers that she doesn't know that. There are also other variants.
I deeply respect individuals' personal choices.
The State here leaves women free to become mothers however they want. Nevertheless, only the biological mother will be considered mother because it's written in the child's DNA. If this woman is married to another woman, the State will not recognize the latter as a second mother, juridically, because marriages (and civil unions) are not eternal, they can have unpredictable outcomes.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I deeply respect individuals' personal choices.
The State here leaves women free to become mothers however they want. Nevertheless, only the biological mother will be considered mother because it's written in the child's DNA. If this woman is married to another woman, the State will not recognize the latter as a second mother, juridically, because marriages (and civil unions) are not eternal, they can have unpredictable outcomes.

I am of another understanding.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
There is a difference between rights and entitlements. Rights apply to all, whereas entitlements tend to be about extras, legally given to some, through legal scams, that go beyond the rights of all. The easiest to see and maybe the original modern legal template are women's rights. Could anyone list all the men's rights? "Men's rights" like "women's right" would be things that only apply to men that women have no say in. Neither should be labelled as rights, which is why there are no legal men's rights. That label is the legal scam. Rather both should be seen as entitlements, since both are extras, that only apply to just specific groups, but not all.

Entitlements are more connected to the obsolete monarchies, where the King/Queen was "entitled" to have more "rights" than anyone else, if you want to call these rights. They could own all the land, tax people, decide who will be called a criminal and then executed. Rights apply to all, but entitlements do not apply to all.

This Conservative push back if an attempt to restore the real meaning of rights, and get rid of specialty entitlements, falsely called rights, mostly for Left Wing voting groups. For example, in the USA being part of LGBTQ entitles you to infiltrate any organization or job, even if not qualified. One can claim your rights are infringed upon and sue to get your way. Can a straight person also sue? Can anyone tell me what are the countering legal, "Straight Rights"?

This balancing of entitlements is what is happening in Italy other places. Rights should be the same for all, but since we now call entitlements rights, then we will need balancing entitlements, to get back to human rights. Now everyone is using the entitlement scam. The Left is upset due to legal scam infringements, they can not sue to protect, less the scam be known and the full template are on public record.

A modern example of the entitlement legal scam, having reached too far, and thereby causing an unconscious backlash, is connected the gender bending entitlements. These "rights", require a lot of resources for surgery, lifetime medication and other support for all the potential future problems it will create. We will need to balance that out, so everyone, not just gender benders are entitled to the same $$ value, so this costly entitlement, can become a human right for all; spend that money instead on college. If we cannot do that, then equal rights will have to settle for no extra expenses for anyone. This is not called hate, but rights fairness for all.

The mentality now, is like having a group of children from one team, that will kick and scream the loudest, who then become legally entitled get the few pieces of tax payer candy. This is not right, but they still think they are entitled. If people would stop thinking in terms of the superficial "shallow shells" and think as "humans:, then we all could have equal rights. But since so many on the Left, define themselves by a shallow shell group, and push to entitle only these certain shells, equals rights is beyond reach unless we balance this out with outer countering shallow shells.
 
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Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
"Italy's right-wing government instructed Milan's city council to stop registering the children of same-sex parents, reigniting a debate around Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni's conservative agenda.
Families, activists and political opponents are to protest against the ban in Milan on Saturday.
Ms Meloni, who leads the far-right Brothers of Italy party, made anti-LGBT rhetoric a cornerstone of her electoral campaign, promising to protect traditional values."

- Italy leaves children of same-sex parents in limbo

Who needs equality? Catholics and Conservatives Unite!

I can't understand why certain political factions believe in using children as political footballs (and schools as political football fields). If the adults want to fight, so be it, but leave the kids out of it.
 

danieldemol

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
For example, if two men who are married and want to become parents, they usually have no other alternative than the surrogate pregnancy.
That is they pay a woman so she can deliver their child.
I don't think it's ethical, and by the way, it is illegal in my country.
No other alternative? What about adoption?
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I am for adoption of children by gay couples. :)

But...I don't think that creating babies through alternatives methods is a good idea. Just that.
Why though? Like specifically why is it a bad idea?

Some people, gay, straight, female, male whatever just sometimes have trouble conceiving. For any number of reasons. Biological, medical, maybe even emotional I dunno
It’s why fertility clinics have been able to make several fortunes for literally decades now. (Fun fact they were reaping in the dough long before homosexuality was even legalised in many countries.)
What’s so bad about a woman getting medically assisted reproduction help or “alternatives” if you like, after potentially losing her reproductive ability due to cancer treatment? Just for example

For reference
 
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