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Spiritual Evidence and Proofs of God’s Existence

blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
loverofhumanity said:
The standard or benchmark is the Holy Scriptures and what they teach such as love, justice, compassion basically the virtues. For science one consults mathematics and the microscope etc. For religion - the Holy Books and the virtues they teach. Do they work when practised?

By practising the virtues we can see how they affect reality, real life on the ground. Thoughts, words and deeds of love defeat hate, similarly thoughts, words and deeds of peace eliminate war while strong thoughts, words and deeds of unity promote brotherhood and friendship.

These spiritual teachings from God work for the betterment of the world but only if practised.
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I don't think we're too far apart about the principles, but we diverge quite a bit on the method. I try to follow a morality based on doing no harm and treating others with decency, respect and inclusion, while using my common sense. If the moral solution is unclear to me, I know who to ask. Works well enough for me.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
loverofhumanity said:
So virtues do not exist? Virtues are the essence of what all religions teach. And by practising virtues such as love, justice, unity and compassion there are no benefits? All the virtues are from God. Plato, Socrates and Aristotle all acknowledged God.
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What do love, justice, unity or compassion have to do with religion?

Religion is inherently opposed to unity - religion is a kind of division, after all - and religious teachings generally do a poor job on the other three things you listed.
 
9-10ths_Penguin

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
nPeace said:
I studied the Bible.
Some people study the Torah... and still don't understand it.

According to Paul... Concerning him we have much to say and hard to be explained, since YOU have become dull in YOUR hearing. For, indeed, although YOU ought to be teachers+ in view of the time, YOU again need someone to teach YOU from the beginning the elementary things+ of the sacred pronouncements of God; and YOU have become such as need milk, not solid food. For everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained* to distinguish both right and wrong.
Hebrews 5:11-14

When a person says they studied the Bible, and you can clearly see that they study only the Torah, and sad to say, in their own understanding, you know they are babes, and can well understand why they study like a babe, and understand like a babe.
They never move on to solid food - maturity.

Hence, it's not possible to reason with such ones. How does one reason with a babe?
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This would be an example of the Courtier's Reply.

Courtier's reply - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

"You lack knowledge and experience in fashion and haberdashery, so you aren't qualified to say that the Emperor has no clothes!"
 
sayak83

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
nPeace said:
That is clearly false.


No way Hose! Say what! Is something wrong with your vision, or thinking ability?
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This was your post
Spiritual Evidence and Proofs of God’s Existence

I challenge you to find me a single line here which anything other than your personal expectations on what a hypothetical test will show that is merely based on your own personal experiences on the matter.
Not a single ounce of any sort of evidence of any sort was actually presented here.
 
Aupmanyav

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"Spiritual Evidence and Proof of God's Existence"
Do you think centuries-old books and people who claim divine connection without showing any evidence, are sufficient evidence for existence of God?
Thankfully, Hinduism does not have any prophet.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
loverofhumanity said:
So virtues do not exist? Virtues are the essence of what all religions teach. And by practising virtues such as love, justice, unity and compassion there are no benefits? All the virtues are from God. Plato, Socrates and Aristotle all acknowledged God.

After Socrates came the divine Plato who was a pupil of the former and occupied the chair of philosophy as his successor. He acknowledged his belief in God and in His signs which pervade all that hath been and shall be. Then came Aristotle, the well-known man of knowledge. He it is who discovered the power of gaseous matter. These men who stand out as leaders of the people and are pre-eminent among them, one and all acknowledged their belief in the immortal Being Who holdeth in His grasp the reins of all sciences. (Baha’u’llah)
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Virtue is a human thing.

Don't need nor require any God concept for that.
 
Valjean

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
nPeace said:
Biblical archaeology is a science.
The problem with that, is the same as your science. 1) They are limited. 2) They are not the only source to truth. 3) They are often wrong.
So can you give a good reason why I need science to demonstrate something that science cannot consider?
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?????????? --- Science doesn't claim to demonstrate "what it cannot consider."
Science stays in its lane, it knows its limits. It makes no proclamations of value, purpose, morality, &c. Religion is the trespasser here. It's constantly making unevidenced claims of objective truth.

Science is the best and most robust source of truth. It's the gold standard. Science is a research modality. Religion is not; it discourages research that might threaten orthodox doctrine.
Religion has been around for thousands of years. It has yet to come to any consensus of major principles.
Till the advent of science, religion had not even worked out the nature of the solar system, the germ theory, tides, weather, evolution, &al.

Science doesn't claim inerrant truth. All discoveries and theories are provisional. They're modified as new knowledge emerges. This is a strength, not a defect.
Religion generates no new knowledge. It makes inflexible, ontologic claims impermeable to contrary facts.

Religion is not a reliable source of truth. Science, though not perfect, is the best we have.

We do not worship science. Science is its own harshest critic. It immediately attacks every new discovery or hypothesis and attempts to find flaws in it; criticizing, testing, and retesting. The process demands efforts to disprove every proposal. That's what makes it more reliable than religion, which discourages criticism (blasphemy, heresy).
 
nPeace

nPeace

Veteran Member
sayak83 said:
This was your post
Spiritual Evidence and Proofs of God’s Existence

I challenge you to find me a single line here which anything other than your personal expectations on what a hypothetical test will show that is merely based on your own personal experiences on the matter.
Not a single ounce of any sort of evidence of any sort was actually presented here.
Click to expand...
All you can see is the test? Wow.
I am so glad RF is not the only place we find scientists.

I'll spell it out for you then. It is self evident. It is not a personal experience. Do I have to put my hand in a sharks mouth to know what the results are? Is that my personal expectation? No. It is not... and we all know that.

So telling me about personal experience, is a strawman.
I said...
This is proof for me, and it can be scientifically tested.
All that is required, is to take all the people who read, study, appreciate, and apply the principles in the Bible, along with thousands of other people, and evaluate the results.
Then I mentioned the features of such a test, and the limitations on science, where that is concerned.

So the focus was never on the test.
Then I said... So, while we have the proof, and it be really proof, science cannot verify it. Nor can atheists disprove it.
We have the proof. We don't need science for that.

Everyone who was not born yesterday, and knows what a shark is, do not need a scientist to tell them what a shark does, do they?
Science can't tell them if the shark will bite them either, so we don't need a peer reviewd paper telling us anything that we can clearly see.
This Scientism worship is really becoming an annoying beast. I look forward to when God kills that beast. :D

We hold these truths to be self evident...

Promiscuity in adults
Having multiple sexual partners is linked with risks such as maternal deaths and complications, cancers, sexually transmitted infections, alcohol, and substance use, and social condemnation in some societies.

Effects of human sexual promiscuity - Wikipedia​


Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.

Health Effects | Smoking and Tobacco Use - CDC​


Drug use can lead to dependence and addiction, injury and accidents, health problems, sleep issues, and more. Drug use affects you and those close to you.

Know the Risks of Using Drugs | SAMHSA​


Smoking causes cancer, heart disease, stroke, lung diseases, diabetes, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), which includes emphysema and chronic bronchitis. Smoking also increases risk for tuberculosis, certain eye diseases, and problems of the immune system, including rheumatoid arthritis.

Health Effects | Smoking and Tobacco Use - CD​


Violence a global public health problem - SciELO​

Community violence can include physical assaults between young people, sexual violence in the workplace and neglect of older people

Profanity | World Problems & Global Issue​

Union of International Associations
http://encyclopedia.uia.org › problem
Profanity. Other Names: Swearing Bad language. Indecent speech. Foul language. Vulgar language. Verbal obscenity. Swear words.


Surely you can post the contrast, can't you?
If you can't, please let me know.
 
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