Spiritual Evidence and Proofs of God’s Existence

[1213]

If one prays to the Celestial Unicorn for something, and it happens, is this evidence for the Celestial Unicorn?...

Was it too difficult to just say no?

Things happen all the time, whether one prays for them or not. You'd need to establish a consistent, one to one, cause and effect relationship between a prayer to a particular entity and consistent realization of the prayer, beyond the probabilities of chance.

Actually, I don't think anything would be enough for an atheist in this issue.

 

[nPeace]

On that link, you said

"To see the transforming power of the Bible, one has to read, study, appreciate and apply it.
Only then, would one see the transforming power, because applying its values result in a superior way of life."

When I read and study the bible, I appreciate it as an informative ancient document. But I don't see how worshiping a God who ordains human sacrifice, invasive wars, massacres of surrendered populations, rape including mass rape, religious intolerance, slavery, subordination of women ─ and so on ─ is pointing me to a superior way of life.

Nor do I understand why it was necessary for Jesus to die, nor (it follows) the morality of a suicide mission such as his, nor how any reasonable person could regard the resurrection as anything but some kind of metaphor ─ as miracles go, we have no eyewitness account of it, no contemporary account of it, no independent account of it, and the six mentions of it in the NT each contradict the other five in major ways ─ you couldn't renew a dog license with evidence of that quality.

The ancients believed in magic but that's no reason why we should do so.

The bible is however a remarkably well preserved ancient set of documents, and they tell us about particular ancient times and places and customs, some of which can be verified by history and archaeology, some of which can be refuted by history and archaeology, and some of which are of indeterminate status.

You said,
"The only problem science would have in this area though, is that they cannot decide on what is immoral, and people have various opinions on morals, so for example, it may be morally acceptable to some, to "pick fairs", that is pay for sexual favors. Or, one may think it is okay to "sleep with" the neighbor's wife, because "she consents", and don't love her husband, anyway."

I assume, then, that you haven't studied the bible's rules about when it's okay to bonk your slaves, or the famous passage about the correct technique for selling your daughter into slavery.

Oh, and the rules about beating your slaves. Not least the rule that if you beat a slave so severely that he/she dies within a day or so, that's murder, and if he/she doesn't die within that time limit, it's not murder or anything else.

And wasn't Jesus ─ or at least the Jesuses of Matthew and of Luke ─ born out of wedlock? That would make him the child of immoral and blameworthy parents in your book, no?

I wonder how you, as a student of the bible, can study these things are not be repelled by them, but on the contrary want to proclaim them as parts of the recipe for virtuous and happy living.

I studied the Bible.
Some people study the Torah... and still don't understand it.

According to Paul... Concerning him we have much to say and hard to be explained, since YOU have become dull in YOUR hearing. For, indeed, although YOU ought to be teachers+ in view of the time, YOU again need someone to teach YOU from the beginning the elementary things+ of the sacred pronouncements of God; and YOU have become such as need milk, not solid food. For everyone that partakes of milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their perceptive powers trained* to distinguish both right and wrong.
Hebrews 5:11-14

When a person says they studied the Bible, and you can clearly see that they study only the Torah, and sad to say, in their own understanding, you know they are babes, and can well understand why they study like a babe, and understand like a babe.
They never move on to solid food - maturity.

Hence, it's not possible to reason with such ones. How does one reason with a babe?

 

[nPeace]

NPeace your post is the best I’ve read in years!

Thanks.

 

[nPeace]

...happiness does not come from possessions but from within.

That's a fact.

 

[danieldemol]

Can you prove that virtues are evolved traits? Where did they evolve from?
I say they are from God. "Hardwired" into "the nature of" man. Can you prove me wrong?

I can't "prove" that virtues are evolved traits, nor do I believe you can "prove" they are from God.
What i can do is something I believe you can't do - link to a scientific peer reviewed paper discussing evidence for the case that they are evolved - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/fig...0.1752781?scroll=top&needAccess=true&role=tab.

As for your comment asking if I can prove you wrong, I believe that is a logical fallacy called shifting the burden of proof.

So what scientific peer reviewed paper can you link to discussing the evidence that God was the one who hardwired humans?

In my opinion.

 

[SalixIncendium]

What are spiritual proofs and evidences of God?

"Proofs" imply objective evidence. There aren't any.

 

[nPeace]

Science is a research modality, it questions everything and encourages skepticism. Religion discourages research and questioning, and celebrates lsck of skepticism (faith). questioning orthodox doctrine.
There is a method to science: Observation, hypothesis forming, testing, review and retesting. All these are discouraged by religion.
Science relies on empirical evidence. Religion relies on faith in ancient, unsupported texts, often by unknown authors.

Some people are totally clueless of anything else but Scientism.
Scientism is the opinion that science and the scientific method are the best or only way to render truth about the world and reality.

Those who think that religion discourages research and questioning, have really pulled the wool over their eyes.
Clearly, they have create their own religion.

 

[nPeace]

I can't "prove" that virtues are evolved traits, nor do I believe you can "prove" they are from God.
What i can do is something I believe you can't do - link to a scientific peer reviewed paper discussing evidence for the case that they are evolved - https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/fig...0.1752781?scroll=top&needAccess=true&role=tab.

As for your comment asking if I can prove you wrong, I believe that is a logical fallacy called shifting the burden of proof.

So what scientific peer reviewed paper can you link to discussing the evidence that God was the one who hardwired humans?

In my opinion.

Why would I need a 'scientific peer reviewed paper'? See my previous post.
Something else, you can do, is take some ants, and feed them. Talk to them. Then put them in your pants, and see how much they love you... Oh, the red ones... better yet, the fire ants may be an excellent choice.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When speaking about evidences and proofs with regards to God here I am not speaking about scientific proofs but spiritual proofs. I believe that the human mind cannot grasp God so it is fruitless trying to prove God scientifically as we are told He is Spirit. Then to prove God we need to look at spiritual evidences.

What are spiritual proofs and evidences of God? Some say the virtues. Others, the transformative effect the Teachings of the Great Spiritual Teachers have had on the character of the individual and society. Still others say miracles.

Readers might like to contribute by adding how their Prophet’s teachings transformed the life of the individual and society or add their own spiritual proofs of God’s existence.

I think the first step here, is to properly define what "spiritual" means.
Preferably in such a way that it is distinguishable from whoo.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

For me, the "transformative effect" and the spiritual values are the strongest proofs.

So, examples of muslims undergoing "transformative effect" as a direct result of their conversion to islam, is evidence of allah?

Or does this only work when they convert to the religion you happen to follow?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Can you prove that virtues are evolved traits? Where did they evolve from?
I say they are from God. "Hardwired" into "the nature of" man. Can you prove me wrong?

I say they come from the Great JuJu at the bottom of the sea.
Can you prove me wrong?






You might want to inform yourself how the burden of proof works.

 

[danieldemol]

Why would I need a 'scientific peer reviewed paper'?

In order to demonstrate that you have anything that could reasonably be considered scientific evidence that God did it.

Something else, you can do, is take some ants, and feed them. Talk to them. Then put them in your pants, and see how much they love you... Oh, the red ones... better yet, the fire ants may be an excellent choice.

Ah, wishing ill on people who show up the silliness of your questions and claims, how immature.

In my opinion.

 

[wellwisher]

When speaking about evidences and proofs with regards to God here I am not speaking about scientific proofs but spiritual proofs. I believe that the human mind cannot grasp God so it is fruitless trying to prove God scientifically as we are told He is Spirit. Then to prove God we need to look at spiritual evidences.

What are spiritual proofs and evidences of God? Some say the virtues. Others, the transformative effect the Teachings of the Great Spiritual Teachers have had on the character of the individual and society. Still others say miracles.

Readers might like to contribute by adding how their Prophet’s teachings transformed the life of the individual and society or add their own spiritual proofs of God’s existence.

There is one way to do this, in a comparative way. It can be done by comparing God to something similar, that is also held as true. Aliens from others planets and galaxies are anticipated/accepted to be true, by many people. What is the proof and why do you believe in something that you can not prove on demand, but only by circumstantial evidence, faith and conspiracy theory? How does this differ from a modern mythology, since it lacks direct and constant proof.

If we compare God, who by definition can create a universe, and the semi-gods; Aliens, that can develop better technology than humans, neither of which we can see, except through circumstantial evidence and inference, which of the two is more advanced? The answer is God.

Is it possible, if the less advanced Aliens can hide in plain sight and defy constant direct proof, the more advanced entity called God, can exceed this alien stealth? Why would an advance being, who no longer needs technology, decide he needs to be limited to using human eyes and senses for all contact confirmation? Wouldn't you expect he can deal directly with the brain. This possibility should also be possible with less advanced alien technology. Stealth can fool the eyes and subliminal; high speed imagery, can plant ideas for recall later. This is primitive tech by both standards.

Many religions speak of something called the inner man; Buddha and Jesus, which is another term for the most wired part of the brain; thalamus region in the core of the brain. If you were God and did not need a physical body or brain, due to being so advanced, since the human brain is the primitive bio-tech seat of consciousness, it would make sense to assume the central switching station of the brain, will be the most direct and versatile connection.

NASA does not try to communication, with possible advanced life, with direct sensory inductions; street signs and cups of hot chocolate. Rather they use technology; better wiring approaches than senses, for much higher resolution. The thalamus is where all neural pathways merge; ping all the senses, and converge, and then the blended signals diverge, for coordinated specialty actions, such as an awareness of something to be further processed in the fontal lobe.

 

[osgart]

So virtues do not exist? Virtues are the essence of what all religions teach. And by practising virtues such as love, justice, unity and compassion there are no benefits? All the virtues are from God. Plato, Socrates and Aristotle all acknowledged God.

After Socrates came the divine Plato who was a pupil of the former and occupied the chair of philosophy as his successor. He acknowledged his belief in God and in His signs which pervade all that hath been and shall be. Then came Aristotle, the well-known man of knowledge. He it is who discovered the power of gaseous matter. These men who stand out as leaders of the people and are pre-eminent among them, one and all acknowledged their belief in the immortal Being Who holdeth in His grasp the reins of all sciences. (Baha’u’llah)

It's been my experience that human nature is to pursue desirability such as beauty, charm, wealth, intellect, skill, and use. Charity is discarded and love of the virtuous kind is often seen as weakness. The benefit of the virtues is among the virtuous, and often enough that is the loneliest walk of all.

 

[nPeace]

So, examples of muslims undergoing "transformative effect" as a direct result of their conversion to islam, is evidence of allah?

Or does this only work when they convert to the religion you happen to follow?

What are you talking about?

 

[nPeace]

I say they come from the Great JuJu at the bottom of the sea.
Can you prove me wrong?






You might want to inform yourself how the burden of proof works.

What is your evidence of the Great JuJu at the bottom of the sea?

 

[sayak83]

The results of test are not invalid, because science cannot successfully carry it out.
The test is already done. Not by science. Did you read the entire post. Look again, because either you did not understand it, or you are focused on one thing, and one thing only - science.
So read the OP again. Then read my post.
Then ask yourself. Is science the only measuring rod being discussed in this thread? Was that the focus of my post? Take the full post. Not one part... and don't have a one directional mind, when you do.

I read the entire post. You mentioned no evidence whatsoever except your expectations based on personal experience. If this is wrong, please quote the part where you referred to anything other than this.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why do you think the question was stupid? Because you can't answer it?

• because it's thoughtless
• no

Parenthetically, if I pray to Ukko for rain and get it, it proves absolutely nothing about Finnish folk deities.

 

[nPeace]

In order to demonstrate that you have anything that could reasonably be considered scientific evidence that God did it.

Biblical archaeology is a science.
The problem with that, is the same as your science. 1) They are limited. 2) They are not the only source to truth. 3) They are often wrong.
So can you give a good reason why I need science to demonstrate something that science cannot consider?

Ah, wishing ill on people who show up the silliness of your questions and claims, how immature.

In my opinion.

What?
How is asking you to use science to demonstrate a mere claim, wishing ill on someone? Don't be ridiculous Daniel.

 

[nPeace]

I read the entire post. You mentioned no evidence whatsoever except your expectations based on personal experience.

That is clearly false.

If this is wrong, please quote the part where you referred to anything other than this.

No way Hose! Say what! Is something wrong with your vision, or thinking ability?