Demons, is there any evidence they even exist?

[TagliatelliMonster]

How do you know God didn’t condition Einstein‘s mind

The same way that I know undetectable unicorns aren't steering your hands to make you post stupid bs.

 

[Apostle John]

Hallucinations that aren't the result of drug abuse or somatic contexts (like high fever or alike) are typically symptoms of psychotic episodes, which is a psychiatric condition which itself occurs within contexts of mental illnesses and / or psychiatric disorders as described in DSM.

As for scientific data on how anti-psychotic meds "make the voices go away", here's a double blind study for you to ignore and / or wave away

International multisite double-blind trial of the atypical antipsychotics risperidone and olanzapine in 175 elderly patients with chronic schizophrenia - PubMed

Stable elderly patients with chronic schizophrenia receiving appropriate doses of risperidone or olanzapine over an 8-week period experienced significant reductions in the severity of psychotic and extrapyramidal symptoms, with a relatively low risk of side effects.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Conclusions: Stable elderly patients with chronic schizophrenia receiving appropriate doses of risperidone or olanzapine over an 8-week period experienced significant reductions in the severity of psychotic and extrapyramidal symptoms


I think it's obvious that you aren't at all interested in intellectually honest discussion.

Yeah that’s easy to dismiss, I think you knew it as well. No mention of ‘voice hearing’ or any other hallucinations in their symptoms in that study. You keep on blathering and I’ll point it out.

 

[nPeace]

It is a "there's no such thing as Dark Matter, it's a place holder name for the unknown source of gravitational forces we measure but are unnaccounted for"

If you are asking if there is evidence that there is an unknown thing out there, which we call dark matter, which is exerting gravity, the answer is YES. And that evidence consists of the gravitational forces we measure but which are unnaccounted for by regular matter.

So there is no independent verifiable evidence of Dark matter. They just call a phenomenon a name, for which they have no clue what is is. Yes?
In other words, it's like experiencing something, but you don't know what it is. You make up a name for it, based on previous knowledge you have.... for example, call it matter, because we believe it's matter. We don't know, but we will call it matter, because it's what we believe.
Is that an accurate way to summarize it?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yeah that’s easy to dismiss, I think you knew it as well. No mention of ‘voice hearing’ or any other hallucinations in their symptoms in that study. You keep on blathering and I’ll point it out.

As I pointed out, hallucinations (visual or auditive) are how psychotic episodes manifest.

That's what psychosis is. When it talks about "psychotic and extrapyramidal symptoms" then that is what it is talking about: hearing voices.
Hearing voices is the dominant manifestation of psychosis.

But as I said, you'll wave away anything that doesn't fit your a priori beliefs, because you're not actually interested in honest discussion.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

So there is no independent verifiable evidence of Dark matter. They just call a phenomenon a name, for which they have no clue what is is. Yes?
In other words, it's like experiencing something, but you don't know what it is. You make up a name for it, based on previous knowledge you have.... for example, call it matter, because we believe it's matter. We don't know, but we will call it matter, because it's what we believe.
Is that an accurate way to summarize it?

I don't know how to explain it any clearer then I already did.

Just like @Apostle John , I can only conclude that you also are not interested in honest discussion.

I explained what Dark Matter refers to. I explained what the evidence for it is.
I told you it is a placeholder name. I told you it refers to an unknown. I don't know what else to tell you.
Apparently you don't (want to?) understand what the words "placeholder" and "unknown" mean.

You can keep being argumentative just for the sake of it though, if that makes you feel better.

I admit, I'm not good at playing pigeon chess.

So, you "win".

 

[Apostle John]

As I pointed out, hallucinations (visual or auditive) are how psychotic episodes manifest.

That's what psychosis is. When it talks about "psychotic and extrapyramidal symptoms" then that is what it is talking about: hearing voices.
Hearing voices is the dominant manifestation of psychosis.

But as I said, you'll wave away anything that doesn't fit your a priori beliefs, because you're not actually interested in honest discussion.

This is your modus operandi, bombard with nonsense to try to confuse the gullible that fall for it. Go back to the origin of this discussion and see where the dishonesty began. You were asked to give scientific data purely on voice hearing and how medication heals it. You then started babbling about psychosis, a mutually exclusive state of mind to voice hearing. Most psychotic episodes start with delusions not hallucinations.

 

[nPeace]

I don't know how to explain it any clearer then I already did.

All it takes is a yes or no. What's to explain, if you already did.?
Are you saying No?

Just like @Apostle John , I can only conclude that you also are not interested in honest discussion.

I explained what Dark Matter refers to. I explained what the evidence for it is.

No. You did not. If Dark Matter is a placeholder name, there is no evidence for it, because, you made up a name for something, for which you have not a clue what it is.
As Neil DeGrasse Tyson put it... not in these words. Dark Matter is a lousy name, since no one knows that it is actually matter.

That's like being awake and experiencing something, and not knowing what it is, but you call it a demon.
You have evidence of a phenomenon.
Is it a demon... or something else?

I told you it is a placeholder name. I told you it refers to an unknown. I don't know what else to tell you.
Apparently you don't (want to?) understand what the words "placeholder" and "unknown" mean.

Are you suggesting that I don't understand what you said? I'm just confirming... you know, making doubly sure I have a clear answer.
Do you find something wrong with that? Why may I ask?

You can keep being argumentative just for the sake of it though, if that makes you feel better.

Argumentative?
Asking questions is being argumentative?

I admit, I'm not good at playing pigeon chess.

So, you "win".

Your time has come once more to run away?
Why? Are you afraid to clash with data?
You don't tire doing this?
If I put my nose in a fight every time, and got clobbered. I'd think I would learn from those experiences.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I don't know how to explain it any clearer then I already did.

Just like @Apostle John , I can only conclude that you also are not interested in honest discussion.

I explained what Dark Matter refers to. I explained what the evidence for it is.
I told you it is a placeholder name. I told you it refers to an unknown. I don't know what else to tell you.
Apparently you don't (want to?) understand what the words "placeholder" and "unknown" mean.

You can keep being argumentative just for the sake of it though, if that makes you feel better.

I admit, I'm not good at playing pigeon chess.

So, you "win".

Suppose a comparison was made between dark matter and say the existence of demons. How valid would you consider that comparison?

On the one hand, we have something, even if it is unknown, that has evidence to identify its existence. On the other, we have something that is claimed and no one seems to be able to provide any evidence for it at all.

I would say that there is no comparison between the two. We are talking something evidenced compared to something with no evidence. What science is doing is based on evidence regardless of whether the thing evidenced is fully characterized. With demons there is nothing characterized and no one can tell me even how you differentiate a demon at work from ordinary conditions that might present evidence that looks like what some conceive of as the action of demons.

To me it is what I would expect from individuals that don't have full knowledge of the actual example being used and the science behind it and have no evidence for the thing being to force into existence out of thin air with no evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I do. Like I said, "testimony" is the number one reason why people get wrongfully convicted.
What does that tell you regarding its reliability?




I entered the discussion because you claimed it is reliable evidence and it isn't. So I'm correcting you.
That's kind of the purpose of a discussion and debate forum.



???

Is this an attempt at an ad hominem?


I guess so... it's a rather lame attempt at an ad hominem...

Oh well....

Whenever you are ready to actually discuss the matter of testimony being unreliable....

I've noticed that once you get them boxed in with good questions and valid evidence, the mudslinging moves to the forefront. Then there will be the threats of damnation that typically follow.

It must be terrible to be left only with that sort of nonsense when they believe such lofty things about themselves.

 

[Apostle John]

I've noticed that once you get them boxed in with good questions and valid evidence, the mudslinging moves to the forefront. Then there will be the threats of damnation that typically follow.

It must be terrible to be left only with that sort of nonsense when they believe such lofty things about themselves.

You are TagliatelleMonster among other machinations of your own mind. You are the person that talks to yourself on these forums and others. You are left nonsenses all day long. It’s overtly obvious.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Dan, you appear to be a reasonable person.

We obviously don't share the same spiritual beliefs, but I respect the way you think things through and analyze what you believe.

Thank you. I do like the Beatles, though I must confess that I have become much more fond of the Who over the years.

I do think that I see a lot of condemnation on here based on what those that point fingers believe is true and not on whether the condemned is Christian or not. There is no evidence that those who hold themselves so high have any means to know what is in the heart of another person. They certainly can't answer questions with any consistency.

I have no idea if demons exist. As I said, I have not witnessed one or any actions that can be objectively attributed to them. But I doubt it and think it is a metaphor for evil and temptation. A means to personify the evil in the dual nature of good and evil in humans. But if they do exist, I haven't seen any of the people that I have talked with that give me any reason to believe they would know.

In the ignorance of our past, those poor people experiencing mental health issues were persecuted and used as evidence for demons, but again, not really evidence that they exist.

You take care. And thanks again for the kind words.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You are TagliatelleMonster among other machinations of your own mind. You are the person that talks to yourself on these forums and others. You are left nonsensense all day long. It’s overtly obvious.

I am the wind and the whisper. I am spinach with EVOO and minced garlic. I am the walrus, goo goo ajub.

 

[vulcanlogician]

Thank you. I do like the Beatles, though I must confess that I have become much more fond of the Who over the years.

I hold the controversial position that the Who and the Beatles are both incredible.

 

[Apostle John]

I am the wind and the whisper. I am spinach with EVOO and minced garlic. I am the walrus, goo goo ajub.

I think it’s why there’s only 35k membership on here.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hold the controversial position that the Who and the Beatles are both incredible.

I would add the Kinks and the Stones into that as well.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I hold the controversial position that the Who and the Beatles are both incredible.

Perhaps even Status Quo.

I don't really count them as 60's groups, but Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath all formed in 1968. What a year.

 

[vulcanlogician]

I don't really count them as 60's groups, but Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple and Black Sabbath all formed in 1968. What a year.

You like Joplin, Hendrix, or the Doors at all?

 

[Aupmanyav]

The criterion is mentioned by Jesus. Matthew 13:11-16; Matthew 16:17

I understand, you have to get your nose cut to see the Emperor's new clothes.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So there is no independent verifiable evidence of Dark matter. They just call a phenomenon a name, for which they have no clue what is is. Yes?
In other words, it's like experiencing something, but you don't know what it is. You make up a name for it, based on previous knowledge you have.... for example, call it matter, because we believe it's matter. We don't know, but we will call it matter, because it's what we believe.
Is that an accurate way to summarize it?

It is incorrect to say that there is no evidence.
"The primary evidence for dark matter comes from calculations showing that many galaxies would behave quite differently if they did not contain a large amount of unseen matter. Some galaxies would not have formed at all and others would not move as they currently do. Other lines of evidence include observations in gravitational lensing and the cosmic microwave background, along with astronomical observations of the observable universe's current structure, the formation and evolution of galaxies, mass location during galactic collisions, and the motion of galaxies within galaxy clusters." - Wikipedia

 

[Dan From Smithville]

You like Joplin, Hendrix, or the Doors at all?

Oh yeah!