Not when you admit you designed somethin that will fail, thus is not perfect. That means you can't expect the creation to be perfect. So when that designed system ends up with defects in children and cancers, then that is part of the design.
Designed something that will fail!!!? Fail to do what?
As far as I remember, Adam multiplied and filled the earth..
As far as I recall, the Bible says, "God saw everything, and it was very good."
Therefore, Adam and Eve were made perfect, just as God wanted.
God purpose was not immediately fulfilled, but it will be. So no, it has not failed. It can't.
To the craftsman, the vase is the perfect vase -
just as he wanted it to be. He did not fail. The vase is not a failure.
It broke, but through careless
If the owner breaks the vase, the craftsman did not fail, since his vase was not supposed to be shatter proof.
He did not use steel.
God did not fail since Adam was not designed to be a robot - programmed to obey God.
So the creators of this track, designed a car to run the track.
This is only a simple example.
Let's see this track as having two different paths, leading to two different ends, and one of those, is a dead end.
The car is not programmed to follow one track.
If the car has it's own decision making AI, and chooses the path to the dead end, the designer has not failed, since he did not design the car that it could only follow the other track.
If he did, he would have failed, since he would have made the mistake of giving the car a decision making AI.
Genetic defects and cancers are not synonymous to breaking glass. The glass is made with cracks and delivered broken.
Pardon me? The glass is made with cracks and delivered broken? What???
No. The craftsman did not make a cracked and broken glass.
The owner breaking the glass is synonymous to causing defects and cancers.
No rebuttal?
So cancers exist in God's creation, but God didn't do it? Since cancers exist in God's creation, and you think God didn't cause them, then God can't manage his creation, because we have cancers. So explain what happened. God screwed up somehow, or cancer is part of the design.
See above.
God's creation did not have defects.
Creating something, and something coming from that creation are not the same thing.
For example, a good printer designed to print exactly what is fed from the word processor, will do so, as long as there is ink, and the printer has not reached its end of life.
If however, I mess with the ink cartridge head, it will not produce what it is supposed to.
Likewise, so long as God's creation was not "messed with", what would have been produced would be perfect.
Adam messed up, and so... They are the ones who have acted corruptly. They are not his children,
the defect is their own.. . . (Deuteronomy 32:5)
No rebuttal?
So God created everything himself, yes?
God created Adam and Eve, and living things, in the Garden of Eden.
Through these, all other life was made.
God didn't hire out the work, yes? So whatever happenes in creation falls on God because there is no one else to blame. If you say no agaion, then explain how cancers exist but it isn't what God wanted. What is going on that God isn't in control?
n/a
So you are saying man doesn't have very good judgment? Why didn't God create man with better judgment? If God creates man and wants certain outcomes, don;t you think God should create man with excellent judgment, and not foolish?
What does good judgment have to do with personal choice?
If I told you to drink water, and natural fruit juice, but you want to drink alcohol, would you say you don't have good judgment, because you choose to, and prefer to drink alcohol?
To have good judgment, one must pay attention to wisdom. How else would one have good judgment?
No rebuttal?
So God can't be surprised, so when man made poor judgments and went off track from what God wanted he wasn't surprised, God knew man would do what man did?
It was a personal choice to do what man wanted to do. Good judgment had nothing to do with it.
No. God did not determine to know what man would do - what choice they would make.
Now that we are here...
Would you consider it a lack of good judgment to take sides with someone who says God is immoral, and there is no reason why you must follow God, since you don't think there is any basis for him being the one to decide what is moral?
I see your answer already. Good.
Here, we demonstrate the wisdom of God, knowing before he created mankind, what we now know.
The exact same thing atheists are saying today, was said before Eve gave birth to any offspring.
You make this argument ... or something like it.
How do we know God's directions are moral? Who decides that God is moral?
When it boils down to it, you are really putting forth the arguement,
"Who or what has the right to determine what good is / what is moral?'"
(Genesis 3:4-5)
4 . . .the serpent said to the woman: “You certainly will not die.
5 For God knows that in the very day you eat from it, your eyes will be opened and you will be like God, knowing good and bad.”
In other words, God is immoral. God is withholding from you, the right to make your own decisions on morality.
God considered this issue before hand and when it was raised, he was and is, in a position to have everyone - including the angel see it settled.
Hence the tree of knowledge of good and bad, which represented God's right as sovereign to determine for his subjects what is good and bad, served to give man the opportunity to accept that he has that right, or choose to reject it.
So God was way ahead of man, you see.
Based on your thinking now, you are giving your answer, and thus, if you were in Adam's position, you would do the same as he did.
I'm sure you would not consider that poor judgment.
Would you?
If so, then God made man exactly as he did, and to behave exactly as man does.
n/a No.
If a designer knows things will go wrong in how his creation works then it is deliberate. God is to blame for how things are now, according to your statement above.
Right.
You said, God is to blame for how things are now, according to your statement - if he knew things would go wrong before creating, it was allowed in order to fulfill his purpose in the end, with the knowledge that it was a momentary "hell".
I said if he knew. I didn't say God knew. So no, that's not according to my statement.
I'm sure you aren't deliberately trying to put words in my mouth, which you are then responding to.
1. Then why did God create or allow cancer at all if he wants to get rid of it?
God did not create cancer, but allowed all ills - even those worse than cancer, for the reasons I mentioned earlier...
- allow the human race to have life - exist.
- allow the human race to be free from suffering.
- settle an important issue that would also prevents the human race from ever having to suffer anytime future.
- allow the human race to live without ever dying.
Which would you have prefered - that the human race not exist, or that the human race exist, even though facing temporary sufferings, with the prospect of life eternal, with no mourning nor outcry nor pain, nor death?
I don't know about you, but I am happy to be alive, despite going through serious and difficult times.
Suffering is temporary. Everlasting life in paradise is never ending.
Revelation 21:3-4; Romans 8:18
2. What is taking so long for God to fix this?
For one thing - settling the issue.
For another - giving people an opportunity to have the chance to live forever. The other option is to end the life of all who have not made the choice to accept his sovereignty... thereby cutting off any hope of them being able to enjoy life forever.
I don't know about you, but I think that's quite a big heart, to patiently endure all that comes with this package, and demonstrate such love for even those who sho little regard for him.
Cancers are not part of anything constructive. They are destructive.
Right.
So it is all designed, and how man is now is part of god's plan, and God is to blame.
No. ...but if you want to believe that, it's your choice. You are certainly free to do so... exercise your free will.
God could do it if your beliefs are correct. For some reason God is unable or unwilling since God is capable.
He is doing it.
You want to know, why so long... why not now.
Perhaps you tire of the suffering. For many of us, it's not easy, but humans seem to manage things with some amazing resilience.
Sometimes I am amazed at how abused children deal with their abuse.
Atheists don't have minds consumed with all these ideas and we function with more ease and realism.
So I have heard. I know better.
