Atheists - A Question...

[nPeace]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

 

[Revoltingest]

I'd have no reason to attribute it
to anything other than a natural
phenomenon. But it would get
me wonder'n.

 

[Orbit]

I would assume the Placebo Effect.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

Two types of things get described as "supernatural":

- natural things that aren't well-understood, and
- things that aren't real.

About your specific scenario:

Imagine that what you described happened without the mysterious figure: you're feeling unwell, go to the doctor, and then feel much better by the time the doctor sees you. You wouldn't think anything magical or "supernatural" had gone on, would you?

Now... what about the presence of the mysterious figure changes anything?

 

[fantome profane]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

For all I know I am on one of those T.V. prank show.

But if this experience is repeatable, yes I would reconsider my beliefs about the world. I am open to change, if the evidence warrants it.

As you state the situation, I probably would still go see the doctor. Pain can be intermittent. And in some cases the sudden absence of pain can be very serious. It could indicate possible nerve damage.

 

[Vinayaka]

'What if' scenarios may make a person think for a minute or two, and they can be good conversation starters, but as any kind of proof for God, or anything else, they don't cut it with reality.

In this scenario, I'd get up and leave, as the reason for going no longer exists. But the problem with this scenario is thus: It ain't gonna happen.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

Another question for you: I get that you're trying to suggest that the mysterious figure performed some sort of magic.

... but what reason would we have to assume that the magic was a positive "miracle"? If we're going to assume - for whatever reason - that there's magic going on, wouldn't it be plausible that the mysterious figure placed a temporary curse on the people who ended up at the doctor's office?

How would you exclude the possibility that your runny nose / headache / diarrhea / whatever was a temporary spell, and the figure came to survey his evil handiwork before the spell wore off?

(Or would you try to exclude it?)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

'What if' scenarios may make a person think for a minute or two, and they can be good conversation starters, but as any kind of proof for God, or anything else, they don't cut it with reality.

If anything, they demonstrate just how far even believers have to reach to find something that seems like compelling evidence, even to them.

 

[Vinayaka]

If anything, they demonstrate just how far even believers have to reach to find something that seems like compelling evidence, even to them.

'What if?' scenarios are imagination, and not much else. Sometimes they might be beneficial in things like trip planning, though, like 'What if the airline loses my bags?' It's always good to have a back up plan. The useful ones tend to be far more realistic, in terms of probability.

 

[fantome profane]

We can see how these people reacted

 

[Polymath257]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

I would say to the doctor how I was feeling and that I am now, perhaps temporarily feeling better.

I would attribute this to a natural phenomenon and would not assume that the mysterious stranger had anything to do with my feeling better or worse. I would make a comment that several people left the waiting room early, which probably meant I got in quicker--a good thing.

And, no, I don't see how this imaginary scenario has anything to do with a spiritual side of life exists. At most it shows that we don't understand everything about why people get well after being sick. But I knew that already.

 

[John53]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

Depends what was wrong with me. If it was a runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / I'd probably think it had passed, as they often do without the appearance of mystery men. On the other hand if I'd severed 3 fingers with a drop saw and they grew back I'd be impressed.

 

[Jose Fly]

I don't understand why the man in the doorway is significant. In the OP he is merely described as coming into the main doorway, standing there, looking around, then leaving. All sorts of people do that all the time in all sorts of settings. I did it just yesterday when I went into the wrong room. I entered the doorway, stopped, looked around, then left.

Let's suppose that just after I left, a person in the room fell over and banged their head. Why in the world would anyone assume I had anything to do with it?

 

[Jose Fly]

Actually, now that I think about this thread a bit more, I believe it actually is quite informative. It gives us a glimpse into what sometimes constitutes "religious thinking" (for lack of a better term), in this case seeing two events as linked when there's no evidence of such.

 

[Lekatt]

I was very skeptical about religion and God. I just could not believe with all of the contradictions.

Then I had a heart attack and found myself outside of my body and still the same person I always was.

I had a Near Death Experience. I then read and studied everything I could find on the subject as well as spiritual phenomenon.

I know that scientists have said they are not real, except for those scientists who have had the experience.

I am a believer in a spiritual world that is nothing like religion teaches.

I would be happy to answer questions.

 

[Watchmen]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

No—not spiritual.

 

[Watchmen]

I was very skeptical about religion and God. I just could not believe with all of the contradictions.

Then I had a heart attack and found myself outside of my body and still the same person I always was.

I had a Near Death Experience. I then read and studied everything I could find on the subject as well as spiritual phenomenon.

I know that scientists have said they are not real, except for those scientists who have had the experience.

I am a believer in a spiritual world that is nothing like religion teaches.

I would be happy to answer questions.

There are scientific theories for NDEs. Have you read Sam Harris?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

'What if?' scenarios are imagination, and not much else. Sometimes they might be beneficial in things like trip planning, though, like 'What if the airline loses my bags?' It's always good to have a back up plan. The useful ones tend to be far more realistic, in terms of probability.

I think it might be better to look at this….

'What if the airline loses my bags?'

… in this way: “What if all the airlines lost every travelers’ bags in one day?”?

Because, it wasn’t just one patient. It was all of them.

Although I’m not sure where the OP was heading with this scenario.
It would have to be huge, to make any kind of impression.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Scenario :

You are in the waiting room of a medical facility.
There are about 30 people in the room.
A man enters the main entrance. Stands in the doorway. Looks around the room at everyone, and then leaves.
You see people looking at others, and reacting as if they are having mixed reactions... and some get up and start exiting the room.
You and the few remaining are looking at each other.
You feel it. You are assuming they feel it too.
Feel what? You no longer feel like when you came to the doctor.
Whatever you were experiencing - runny nose / headache / stomach cramps / ___ was gone.
Not wanting to look like an idiot sitting there by yourself (everyone else has left), you get up... to leave.​

Wait a minute.
Maybe you need to see the doctor, to be sure you are fine.
You could say, "Doc. I have... had... this awful pain a few moments ago..."

Atheists... If this happened to you, would this convince you that the spiritual side of life is a reality - that miracles and the supernatural are real?
Or would you attribute it to a 'natural' phenomenon - perhaps associated with some scientific experiment or mind altering technology?

If it happened, sure, I'd wonder what the heck was going on. And if I couldn't find any reason for why it happened, I'd have to consider that maybe there's something -- even supernatural -- that I don't understand.

But has it happened? Not to me. Not to any doctor's waiting room I've ever seen on record. So what's the point of the question?

 

[Vinayaka]

I think it might be better to look at this….

… in this way: “What if all the airlines lost every travelers’ bags in one day?”?

Because, it wasn’t just one patient. It was all of them.

Although I’m not sure where the OP was heading with this scenario.
It would have to be huge, to make any kind of impression.

Indeed it would have to be huge. I've challenged Messiah claimants to stand in front of a firing squad with 100 loaded guns (not just 1) and take the 100 hits. Then, if you're indeed the messiah, you could just get up and go back to the sermon. Indeed, it would have to be huge. But you missed my point, and that was that we can't always dismiss 'What if?' scenarios, because in planning circumstances they can be useful. But that was outside of the topic so I'll drop it.