Legitimate reasons not to believe in God

[F1fan]

Blaming ‘interpretations’?
That’s just a cop-out.
How else can you interpret the Bible’s counsel for Christians to ‘love their enemy’ Matthew 5:44), ‘love their brothers’ (1 Peter 1:22), and to ‘be kind, forgiving, and considerate’ ??—- Colossians 3:13-14; Ephesians 4:32.

That would be a question for your fellow Christians. How they behave according to their interpretation of the Bible has nothing to do with me. I observe many Christians act in ways contrary to your quotes from the Bible.

As I noted there have been Christians who tortured and executed people for witchcraft, yet you offer no explanation for why this happened except for how they interpret various parts of the Bible in a way that suited their attitudes.

 

[F1fan]

You already know the science, that what I said is accurate.

None mention any gods. So what are youy talking about in your tricky language?

And I didn’t say “energy is God”. He is the Source of all energy though, be it physical or immaterial.

This is your ongoing claim, and you offer no evidence thta your claims are true, so we dismiss them.

And there is no immaterial known to be real. The word itself is nonsense. Just more tricky language.

I’m not going to pursue this with you, it would be a wasted effort.
The point (about God’s eternal nature) was explained.

You have no evidence for your religious claims. This has been a constant through history. Why theists keep believing and keep making claims is the ongoing question. Yet you believers can't even answer that.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Since neither believes that Jesus is God, is it even the same God that each is claiming to be real?

Yes, it is .. but the doctrine differs.

Almighty God is the Creator and Maintainer of the universe.
..then we diverge on matters of creed and law.

 

[Trailblazer]

A wise course of action... but "not taking chances" means therefore that God is not so much ever-forgiving and closer to probably-forgiving...

If you read the following passage you will see that God can be both ever-forgiving and probably-forgiving, since God only forgives who He 'pleases' to forgive.

“Thy loving providence hath encompassed all created things in the heavens and on the earth, and Thy forgiveness hath surpassed the whole creation. Thine is sovereignty; in Thy hand are the Kingdoms of Creation and Revelation; in Thy right hand Thou holdest all created things and within Thy grasp are the assigned measures of forgiveness. Thou forgivest whomsoever among Thy servants Thou pleasest. Verily Thou art the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Loving. Nothing whatsoever escapeth Thy knowledge, and naught is there which is hidden from Thee.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 178

 

[Hockeycowboy]

So again. I have faith in God, but I know nothing about God. I try to do love and all that, but I have no science and evidence.
So am I doing it right or what?

“Try to do love”… that’s so true, trying our best. And it’s a start.

But we all ‘miss the mark’, don’t we?

That’s a reason to have good friends that are trying, and believe similarly. Close friendship with others who don’t, will just erode our resolve.
This world makes it hard enough!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You have no evidence for your religious claims. This has been a constant through history. Why theists keep believing and keep making claims is the ongoing question. Yet you believers can't even answer that.

Life and its complex arrangements.

Answered.

 

[samtonga43]

You seem to want atheists to lower our standards so we will accept unwarranted assumptions and weak, subjective evidence.

This is your ongoing claim, and you offer no evidence thta your claims are true, so we dismiss them.

You have no evidence for your religious claims. This has been a constant through history. Why theists keep believing and keep making claims is the ongoing question. Yet you believers can't even answer that.

Evidence.
You use this word a lot, F1fan. I would be interested to know what you mean when you use it in the context of this discussion…?

 

[samtonga43]

As usual, you make unfounded assumptions regarding what I said.
I said: A person can a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to, and suffer more than a person who does not have all the physical niceties. Suffering is highly subjective, as is happiness.
I did not say anything about myself and whether I am suffering more or less than anyone else.
I did not say anything about the horrors you mentioned or refer to them as 'physical niceties.'

As usual, you did not read carefully. Look again at the very first word in my post. I asked you to imagine certain scenarios. Here is what I said - again.
Imagine for one minute that you are the person with a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to.
Are you suffering more than those in this world in dire need, more than the child who has lost her mother and father in Ukraine, more than the victims of terrible abuse (often from their own family members).

You think the horrors above are 'physical niceties'?

 

[samtonga43]

That is not the reason they did not pay the price of sin. The reason is because that was not the mission God gave them to do.

Jesus was a both human and divine, just like all the other Manifestations of God listed.
The only difference was that He had been given a different mission from God.

"Beware, O believers in the Unity of God, lest ye be tempted to make any distinction between any of the Manifestations of His Cause, or to discriminate against the signs that have accompanied and proclaimed their Revelation. This indeed is the true meaning of Divine Unity, if ye be of them that apprehend and believe this truth. Be ye assured, moreover, that the works and acts of each and every one of these Manifestations of God, nay whatever pertaineth unto them, and whatsoever they may manifest in the future, are all ordained by God, and are a reflection of His Will and Purpose. Whoso maketh the slightest possible difference between their persons, their words, their messages, their acts and manners, hath indeed disbelieved in God, hath repudiated His signs, and betrayed the Cause of His Messengers.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 59-60

My response to MrB’s bolded words followeth.
Jesus is not a manifestation. He is the Second Person of the Trinity.

 

[Trailblazer]

As usual, you did not read carefully. Look again at the very first word in my post. I asked you to imagine certain scenarios. Here is what I said - again.
Imagine for one minute that you are the person with a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to.
Are you suffering more than those in this world in dire need, more than the child who has lost her mother and father in Ukraine, more than the victims of terrible abuse (often from their own family members).

Why compare?
Only God knows who is suffering more because God knows everyone's thoughts and feelings.

You think the horrors above are 'physical niceties'?

I never said that those horrors are physical niceties so I don't know where you are getting that idea from.

 

[F1fan]

Evidence.
You use this word a lot, F1fan. I would be interested to know what you mean when you use it in the context of this discussion…?

Is the word "evidence" confusing to you? I use it in the normal and typical sense. Here is the definition I use:

ev·i·dence
/ˈevədəns/
noun

1. the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.
   
   

 

[F1fan]

Life and its complex arrangements.

Answered.

Yet the sciences do not support religious assumptions and beliefs. And I asked you to cite the science that supports your religious beliefs and you failed to cite any. So your position is not well backed up objectively, and that is what evidence is for.

 

[MonkeyFire]

This is the war realm. If you think of war as a literal angel you have to to his thing with him, and pause happiness for a slight moment.

 

[Trailblazer]

the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid.

That is the same definition I always use. Please note that it says indicating, not proving.

 

[TLK Valentine]

If you read the following passage you will see that God can be both ever-forgiving and probably-forgiving, since God only forgives who He 'pleases' to forgive.

“Thy loving providence hath encompassed all created things in the heavens and on the earth, and Thy forgiveness hath surpassed the whole creation. Thine is sovereignty; in Thy hand are the Kingdoms of Creation and Revelation; in Thy right hand Thou holdest all created things and within Thy grasp are the assigned measures of forgiveness. Thou forgivest whomsoever among Thy servants Thou pleasest. Verily Thou art the Ever-Forgiving, the All-Loving. Nothing whatsoever escapeth Thy knowledge, and naught is there which is hidden from Thee.”
Selections From the Writings of the Báb, p. 178

And it will please Him to forgive you... probably.

This is the sort of thing that turned me off Christianity... at least as a source of morality.

 

[Truthseeker]

No, I was discussing fear of God and someone else said that I fear God because God would punish me and then I said even if God could punish me He would not necessarily do so because God is forgiving. That is what led me to the quote.

At any rate, good job.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

“Try to do love”… that’s so true, trying our best. And it’s a start.

But we all ‘miss the mark’, don’t we?

That’s a reason to have good friends that are trying, and believe similarly. Close friendship with others who don’t, will just erode our resolve.
This world makes it hard enough!

Evasion noted. Just be honest and tell me, if I need to be a Christian?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Life and its complex arrangements.

Answered.

Sorry but that is just an argument from ignorance.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That is the same definition I always use. Please note that it says indicating, not proving.

An as you probably know attempting to use the word "prove" in this context is incorrect.

 

[samtonga43]

I never said that those horrors are physical niceties so I don't know where you are getting that idea from.

From here:--
ME: I don't find it hard to have empathy with those in this world in dire need, with the child who has lost her mother and father in Ukraine, with the victims of terrible abuse (often from their own family members).
I do find it hard to have empathy with those who complain about their 'hard life', while enjoying a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, friends to talk to --- and who still complain.

YOU: A person can enjoy a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to, and suffer more than a person who does not have all the physical niceties.

You really do not see the connection here? What did you mean by physical niceties, if not a warm place in which to live, money to buy food and cars, and friends to talk to,
?