When did God tell the Israelites that He was three persons?

[Soapy]

I hope you are not implying that I'm a child of Satan. I love Jesus and confess Him as Christ, God and Savior.

I find that both testaments testifying of the triunity of God. That is the simple reason why most biblical denominations and Bible-affirming groups disagree with you.

I think the best question I can ask is what you think the gospel is--since biblically speaking, Jesus paid for more than one person's sin by being both divine and our sacrifice.

Thank you.

I hope you are not implying that I'm a child of Satan. I love Jesus and confess Him as Christ, God and Savior.

If you believe Jesus Christ then you will know that:

• ‘All who are led by the spirit of Satan are children of Satan’ and
• ‘All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God’

You decide which spirit you are led by… but don’t forget this also:

• ‘Not all who say, “Lord we did works in your name” but then I will tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”’

Just saying you love Jesus doesn’t qualify you as speaking the truth Jesus gave us via the scriptures - THE TRUTH HE HEARD FROM GOD…!

Think… you just said Jesus is God but yet Jesus was taught BY GOD what to say and do… to reveal THE FATHER to those unto whom the Father directed him to reveal Him to:

• “For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.”
• “For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.”

Are you saying that Jesus, despite being God (you say) was yet TAUGHT by God and was COMMANDED by God (whom he is, you say!)

Sounds a lot recursive, do you admit?

 

[blü 2]

Nope, we cannot be in agreement.

Please EITHER quote me Jesus saying "I am God" in the NT OR agree that we agree he doesn't. I can't think of a third option.

I sincerely hope you are not in a job where one must come to logical conclusions based on certain data.

That, unfortunately for the point you're making, is a fair part of what I do.

I get the impression you can only work with simple answers like a child.

There you go again, arguing not about the points I made, but about me personally. (It's called an 'ad hominem' argument and it's a well-known fallacy.)

God's self-revelation was progressive. It started with creation and developed from there. So, over time we knew more and more about God. Christ, as the Messiah, was part of that process. Jesus did not pop onto the scene with the words "Here I am. I am God."

So you in fact agreed all along that he never says such a thing!

Perhaps it would be better to put off accusing me of confused thinking until you have your own thinking sorted, no?

Jesus revealed His true identity gradually when the time was right.

Please quote me Jesus revealing his "true identity" ─ as God, I take it? ─ in the NT.

He also did many things that only God could do.

Yes, the Jesus of John says as much ─

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6:38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me ...
​

Or are you saying Jesus is lying?

Still, even His closest disciples got it until much later. They initially only got glimpses of His real nature until the truth hit them hard.

One example is this:- His transfiguration on the mountain. It is not something a mere human could ever be capable of. It is probably the major turning point in the Gospel narratives. Jesus gave them a glimpse of His glory. It confirmed the truth of Peter’s confession of faith (Math 16:16 - Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God" - Peter was beginning to get it - Probably the first one whose eyes opened to Jesus real nature.

(Matthew 17:1-13) After six days Jesus took with Him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There He was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and His clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
[...]
5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud enveloped them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is My Son, whom I love; with Him I am well pleased. Listen to Him!”

6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground, terrified. 7 But Jesus came and touched them. He said, “Get up. Don’t be afraid.” 8 When they looked up they saw no one except Jesus.

9 As they were coming down the mountain, Jesus instructed them, “Do not tell anyone what you have seen, until the Son of Man has been raised from the dead.”

10 The disciples asked Him, “Why then do the teachers of the law say that Elijah must come first?” 11 Jesus replied, “To be sure, Elijah comes and will restore all things. 12 But I tell you, Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but have done to him whatever they wished. In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.” 13 Then the disciples understood that He was talking to them about John the Baptist.

That's consistent with Jesus being God's envoy. It bears no resemblance to his being God.

This is absolutely mind-boggling. Peter had heard Jesus say a week earlier that some who were standing there would not taste death before they saw the Son of Man coming in His kingdom (Matt. 16:28). Now, on the mountain, Peter saw Christ in all His glory.

The figure "the Son of Man" is not identified with God. From his first mention in Daniel (without capital letters) to stories identifying him with Enoch, to his role as God's apocalyptic agent, he plainly isn't God.

Just as he said.

Oh, and you still haven't explained why Mark's and Matthews' Jesuses would say, "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" Or why the four gospel Jesuses all prayed, "If it be my will, let this cup pass from me." That's plain silly, no?

 

[Five Solas]

If that's wrong, please give me a nice specific example of this 'literalism' you accuse me of.

You are either ignorant, grossly dishonest or not very bright.

You do not understand logic neither do you understand the nature of truth. You are implicating that if Jesus never spoke the words, "I am God" then He is not God. No one can fabricate truth in that manner and it is dishonest to aim to subjectively limit truth. That is also a literalist approach. So, I accuse you of that, yes.

Firstly, you do not accept that "TRUTH IS". We dare not invent subjective conditions to the truth. We cannot say if the truth is not like we want it to be then it is not true. That is exactly what you do. You suggest that if Jesus did not say, "I am God" then He is not God. You dare not subjectively limit truth to your own subjective ideas. You can't fabricate truth that way. I know many these days are under the delusion that they can fabricate their own truths but that is just nonsense. This approach you follow reflects badly on you.

Secondly, you seem to have problems with logical thinking. If you insist on a hardline literal approach focusing exclusively on the plain meaning of words then you will not get anywhere. Scripture often uses symbolism and analogy. Scripture is progressive building on previous events. The different aspects of truth are often revealed in a series of events. The history of salvation is progressive. Jesus had disciples as was the custom then. He worked with them over time to teach them and to show the truth to them. If you are unable to follow the story and the logic involved in a series of events then you have a serious problem.

These two issues are preventing you from knowing the truth. So, please stop pretending to be clever with me. If you continue in this manner you will never discover the truth.

 

[Five Solas]

Please EITHER quote me Jesus saying "I am God"

How dare you subjectively limit truth to your own limited understanding?

 

[Five Solas]

There you go again, arguing not about the points I made, but about me personally.

Yes, it is about you and your approach. You aim to limit truth to your own subjective definition. That is not a foundation for a debate. If you use the wrong method you will get the wrong answer. In fact, you will blissfully live a lie - your own lie.

 

[Five Solas]

I can't think of a third option.

I know you limit yourself to your own definition so you will not be able to find truth in other ways.

Try logic.

 

[Five Solas]

The second is that I said that since trinity is a fallacy there’s nothing to understand. Trinity is INCOMPREHENSIBLE by the very words of its own creators. No one can explain the trinity EVER!

Come on clever boy, why do you not fully explain God to us if you know so much? If God is not a mystery to you then enlighten us with your superior knowledge.

If you can't, then practice what you preach and stop talking about God.

You claim to be a Christian but your views are far removed from the theology of just about every church I have knowledge of. You appear to be a maverick - someone hovering on the fringes of the church trying to preach falsehoods. Jesus called that a wolf in sheep's clothes.

 

[blü 2]

You are either ignorant, grossly dishonest or not very bright.

There you go again, resorting to abuse instead of addressing the question. You accused me of 'literalism' in terms that make it clear you regard it as a fault. I asked you for a nice clear example of what you're talking about. You don't reply. You simply abuse.

You do not understand [...] the nature of truth.

I use the 'correspondence' definition of truth ─ truth is a quality of statements, and a statement is true to the extent that it corresponds with/ accurately reflects objective reality.

What definition of truth do you use?

You are implicating that if Jesus never spoke the words, "I am God" then He is not God.

I'm not implying that, I'm stating it clearly and you know it's correct since you have not a single example of any version of Jesus saying "I am God". However, that's only a part of my argument. The main part is that all five versions of Jesus in the NT deny that they're God. Did you fail to read the numerous examples I gave you?

No one can fabricate truth in that manner.

You seem to like doing so.

Firstly, you do not accept that "TRUTH IS".

We'll know more about that when you spell out your definition of "truth" for me.

We cannot say if the truth is not like we want it to be then it is not true.

You're doing exactly that by ignoring all the examples I gave you of Jesus saying he's not God. You're deliberately avoiding the substance of the case against you.

That is exactly what you do. You suggest that if Jesus did not say, "I am God" then He is not God.

There you go again. Jesus said repeatedly he was not God. If he was indeed God then he was also a liar ─ all five NT versions of him.

You dare not subjectively limit truth to your own subjective ideas. You can't fabricate truth that way. I know many these days are under the delusion that they can fabricate their own truths but that is just nonsense. This approach you follow reflects badly on you.

Scripture often uses symbolism and analogy.

No doubt it does. But you've made no case that relies on what you say, and those five versions of Jesus were NOT using symbolism or analogy when they said they weren't God.

Scripture is progressive building on previous events.

No, scripture is (in the Christian case) a set of books collectively called the Bible. Each book was written by one or more humans and none of the NT authors ever met an historical Jesus or claims to.

But that's beside the point. The point is that Jesus never said he was God, said in all five versions of him that he was NOT God, I've set the relevant texts for you, and you want to talk about anything but those.

For the third time, Jesus wasn't elevated to God status till after the gospels were written. Otherwise he'd have said, "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" (and so on).

 

[Five Solas]

That's consistent with Jesus being God's envoy. It bears no resemblance to his being God.

Oh really??

God reveals Himself in many different ways. And, as I have said, His self-revelation is progressive including revealing Himself in the NT as Jesus, the God-Man = the Son of God as God the Son.

God Jesus is revealed as Son of David, Son of Abraham, Son of Adam, and Son of God.

I suppose that will confuse your all-literal approach completely – it cannot make sense if you interpret in that manner.

Luke's genealogy, for example, shows us how Jesus fulfills the Old Testament prophecies – that He is the Messiah – the promised God-Man.

You see, the genealogy of Luke manages to do five things at once.

· He marks Jesus as the Son of God.

· He shows that Jesus is the second Adam.

· That Jesus is the seed of Abraham, in whom all the Abrahamic salvation promises are fulfilled.

· That Jesus is the Messiah – God, the heir of the Davidic throne.

· That Jesus is also a real man — flesh and blood

We know that Adam, Israel, and David were all called “sons of God.” When we look at the Scriptures, we find “son of God” used in a variety of ways – mostly symbolic language. The following will probably confuse your all-literal approach totally – The term “son of God,” has seven different applications: Adam, Israel, David, God’s covenant people, those adopted by God (in Christ), imitators of God, and believers who will receive the kingdom of God are labeled sons of God.

Try to understand…

Jesus Christ, our Lord, the Messiah IS the Divine Son of God:- the Son of God is God the Son

Gal. 4:4-5 says “When the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law, to redeem those who were under the law, so that we might receive adoption as sons”. To put it differently, when the divine Son took on human flesh He fulfilled the role marked out for him by Adam, Israel, and David – historic figures in the history of salvation. (For those with deeper understanding)

Christ, the Messiah – the Son of God – was not an afterthought. The “earlier” sons of God were types of the true Son – God incarnate.

John’s Gospel is 100% correct. Its prologue names Jesus as the divine Son of God = God the Son.

 

[blü 2]

Oh really??

God reveals Himself in many different ways.

Like saying in all five versions, "I am not God"? Really? So your God is indeed a liar, right? A Donald Trumpy God, eh, living a human life of pure deceit?

And, as I have said, His self-revelation is progressive including revealing Himself in the NT as Jesus, the God-Man = the Son of God as God the Son.

Nope. None of that is in the NT. Jesus, all five of him, are expressly and out loud NOT GOD. Oh, sorry, yes, you addressed that above ─ you said God is a liar.

Meanwhile you haven't told me your definition of truth, I suspect because you don't have one.

You haven't pointed out anywhere in the NT where Jesus says "I am God".

You haven't explained why Mark's and Matthews' Jesuses on the cross would say, "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?"

Or why all five of them would pray, "If it be my will, let this cup pass from me"

You haven't addressed any of the quotes I gave you where all five Jesuses make it clear they're not God.

So in your next post, why don't you give a reasoned account ─ you say you're the logical one here ─ and address all those points, one after the other? Gosh, an onlooker who didn't know better might suspect you don't because you can't!

 

[Brian2]

I'm not implying that, I'm stating it clearly and you know it's correct since you have not a single example of any version of Jesus saying "I am God". However, that's only a part of my argument. The main part is that all five versions of Jesus in the NT deny that they're God. Did you fail to read the numerous examples I gave you?

You're doing exactly that by ignoring all the examples I gave you of Jesus saying he's not God. You're deliberately avoiding the substance of the case against you.

There you go again. Jesus said repeatedly he was not God. If he was indeed God then he was also a liar ─ all five NT versions of him.

No doubt it does. But you've made no case that relies on what you say, and those five versions of Jesus were NOT using symbolism or analogy when they said they weren't God.

But you know Jesus did not say "I am God" and you know Jesus did not say "I am not God".

For the third time, Jesus wasn't elevated to God status till after the gospels were written. Otherwise he'd have said, "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" (and so on).

You don't understand what the trinity doctrine is it seems. The argument about Jesus not saying "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" might apply if you were arguing with a unitarian, not a trinitarian.

 

[Brian2]

Why do Christians never read their own book?
Corinthians 8
5 For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth – as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords” 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.
Philippians 2:11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Mark 12: 29 Jesus answered, “The first is, ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one;” ... 32 And the scribe said to him, “You are right, Teacher; you have truly said that he is one, and there is no other but he;

Matthew 20:23 “to sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for those for whom it has been prepared by my Father.”

Matthew 24:36 “But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only.”

Luke 18:19 “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.”

John 1:18 No one has ever seen God; the only Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he has made him known.

John 5:19 “the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing”

John 5:30 “I can do nothing on my own authority; [...] I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.”

John 6:38 “For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him who sent me”

John 8:42 “I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.”

John 10:29 “My Father [...] is greater than all”.

John 14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority; but the Father who dwells in me does his works.”

John 14:28 You heard me say to you, ‘I go away, and I will come to you.’ If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.

John 16:23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, if you ask anything of the Father, he will give it to you in my name.

John 17:3 “And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.”

John 20:17 “I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.”
Quote me any Jesus saying 'I am God'.

(Don't quote me anything else, just those words. For example, don't quote me any Jesus saying, 'Before Abraham was, I am' ─ that simply refers to John's gnostic Jesus pre-existing in heaven with God and creating the material universe.)

And tell me why Mark's and Matthew's Jesuses on the cross said, "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" Why did all four gospel Jesuses pray "If it be my will, let this cup pass from me"?

You seem to want to pick and choose which NT books you want to believe and which ones you do not. Anything to help your argument about Jesus not being God I guess.
What you should really do is go and read some literature on the Trinity doctrine and some apologetic stuff against the teachings of the JWs and the like, then you might realise why your quotes don't show that Jesus is not God.

 

[blü 2]

But you know Jesus did not say "I am God" and you know Jesus did not say "I am not God".

As I set out in the examples, all five Jesuses make it clear they're not God. So either they're indeed not God or they're all liars and deceivers, no?

You don't understand what the trinity doctrine is it seems. The argument about Jesus not saying "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" might apply if you were arguing with a unitarian, not a trinitarian.

Please explain why one of the three persons of God (each of whom as you know is 100% of God) would think he wasn't God, and ask God for help.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You mean that Jesus paid for THREE person’s sin?

That is silly, of course, but that’s how the trinity works. You even speak of Jesus as TWO personalities and then claim he is God… who has THREE personalities.

Jesus: ‘I and the Father are one!’
Trinity: ‘Jesus is three!’

Jesus: ‘I am going to the Father!’
Trinity: He is returning to be God again after being man on earth!
Trinity: Jesus is both GOD (three persons) and a man - isn’t that FOUR?

Scriptures: Stephen looking in vision saw Heaven open and saw God seated and Jesus standing next to him… TWO…
Trinity: Stephen saw the trinity Godhead (even though no such ‘Godhead’ word is ever alluded to in scriptures!)

It’s funny how Trinitarians never answer to how TWO makes THREE or what a ‘GODHEAD’ is despite them universally using such words and terms as the spear point of their ideology!

Can you explain how two is three?

Or how about the fact that sin and wickedness flee from God yet Jesus lived among sin and wickedness and was even killed by sinfulness and wickedness in man?

Jesus paid for the sin of man, more than three persons.

Are you claiming Jesus's cross did not pay for man's sin? I am concerned.

 

[BilliardsBall]

If you believe Jesus Christ then you will know that:

• ‘All who are led by the spirit of Satan are children of Satan’ and
• ‘All who are led by the spirit of God are children of God’

You decide which spirit you are led by… but don’t forget this also:

• ‘Not all who say, “Lord we did works in your name” but then I will tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!”’

Just saying you love Jesus doesn’t qualify you as speaking the truth Jesus gave us via the scriptures - THE TRUTH HE HEARD FROM GOD…!

Think… you just said Jesus is God but yet Jesus was taught BY GOD what to say and do… to reveal THE FATHER to those unto whom the Father directed him to reveal Him to:

• “For I gave them the words you gave me and they accepted them.”
• “For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak.”

Are you saying that Jesus, despite being God (you say) was yet TAUGHT by God and was COMMANDED by God (whom he is, you say!)

Sounds a lot recursive, do you admit?

I think I'm hearing you say that hundreds of millions to billions of people, who say they love God and know the truth that He is a triunity, are all children of Satan.

I've heard cult members like the JWs claim that only they have truth in doctrine. Those who number the Christian God as one or two persons only is an even smaller group.

I love Jesus, I know truth, He is Lord, God, King, Savior. I keep asking you if He is Savior and whether He died and rose for sin. BIBLICALLY, unless you believe Jesus is Savior, you are what you are accusing me of. I'm a little worried about your soul--biblically speaking.

 

[cataway]

I think I'm hearing you say that hundreds of millions to billions of people, who say they love God and know the truth that He is a triunity, are all children of Satan.

I've heard cult members like the JWs claim that only they have truth in doctrine. Those who number the Christian God as one or two persons only is an even smaller group.

I love Jesus, I know truth, He is Lord, God, King, Savior. I keep asking you if He is Savior and whether He died and rose for sin. BIBLICALLY, unless you believe Jesus is Savior, you are what you are accusing me of. I'm a little worried about your soul--biblically speaking.

4" In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many."
i am not surprised that you have a belief in Jesus .yet because of the things Jesus said, there is a probability you are doing it wrong

 

[Soapy]

Come on clever boy, why do you not fully explain God to us if you know so much? If God is not a mystery to you then enlighten us with your superior knowledge.

If you can't, then practice what you preach and stop talking about God.

You claim to be a Christian but your views are far removed from the theology of just about every church I have knowledge of. You appear to be a maverick - someone hovering on the fringes of the church trying to preach falsehoods. Jesus called that a wolf in sheep's clothes.

Thanks for your reply. I feel you have hit the buffers and can offer no more creative responses. But it is true that my belief is far removed from the trinitarian-based churches and other sects of ‘Christianity’ that you say you have encountered.

Yes, that’s the problem and the solution: You have never properly encountered the truth and had it fed to you so delicately - so you spit it out like a child being spoon-fed balanced nutrition but only wants sugared sweeties!

Yes, you have never fed the truth and tried to swallow it - it’s abhorrent to you! The poison of trinity is what favours your pallet.

You ask me to tell you about God!!? Why? Didn’t Jesus already do that… and you disbelieved him: Just as he said people would do!!

Jesus came to reveal the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus was taught by the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus carried out the commands of the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus prayed to the Father as his God: Do you deny that?

Jesus gave up his spirit to the Father as he died: Do you deny that?

Jesus was raised up from the dead by the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus was given a glorified body by the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus was taken up to Heaven by the power of the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus was granted to be in the place of honour next to the Father in Heaven: : Do you deny that?

Jesus was granted power and authority to rule over the Heaven and earth - until all things were set to their right order - by the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus hands back the granted power and authority to the Father when he accomplishes what the Father tasked him with: Do you deny that?

Jesus is granted the ultimate power and authority to judge the world by the Father: Do you deny that?

Jesus is granted to rule over his own kingdom (the Created world) by the Father: Do you deny that?

All humanity comes to acknowledge Jesus Christ as Lord (‘Lord’ is far less a title than ‘God’) over creation: Do you deny that?

 

[Soapy]

I think I'm hearing you say that hundreds of millions to billions of people, who say they love God and know the truth that He is a triunity, are all children of Satan.

I've heard cult members like the JWs claim that only they have truth in doctrine. Those who number the Christian God as one or two persons only is an even smaller group.

You and others keep trying to push a JW title on me… perhaps the truth of the JW’s are closer to the truth of God than trinitarianism… but I assure you that I am not a JW - in fact I am no title that you know of so don’t waste time trying to list them in an attempt to ‘label’ me!

But as for numbers in membership of a belief:

• “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.“ (Matt 7:13-14)

I’m not advocating that creating a minor cult belief and thinking that this means it’s true - many have done that already and the outcome have testified disastrously against them. The true belief does not count numbers and do not advertise itself: the truth testifies for them!

I love Jesus, I know truth, He is Lord, God, King, Savior. I keep asking you if He is Savior and whether He died and rose for sin. BIBLICALLY, unless you believe Jesus is Savior, you are what you are accusing me of. I'm a little worried about your soul--biblically speaking.

That which you think is borne out of ignorance and sheer desperation.

Simply being misled does not make one a child of Satan… it is the DOING OF DEEDS ATTRIBUTED to the ways of the Satan that makes the difference.

If you WILLINGLY mislead, if you KNOWINGLY deviate, if BLATANTLY lie, … but every opportunity is given to make amends and learn the truth. Learn the truth and believe it… that IS the difference that one can make towards the truth of God brought by Jesus Christ!

For Jesus did not bring glory to himself but it was God who said to him: ‘You will be my Son, and I will be your Father’; and again, it was God who made this man Jesus that you know, both Christ and Lord!

All that Jesus BECAME comes from the Father:

• “Now they know that everything you have given me comes from you.” (John 17:7)

 

[Soapy]

Jesus paid for the sin of man, more than three persons.

Are you claiming Jesus's cross did not pay for man's sin? I am concerned.

The RIGHTEOUSNESS OF ONE MAN paid for the SINS OF ONE MAN!

The first ADAM sinned : The LAST ADAM became a life giving Spirit (‘Adam’ means ‘Man’).

Jesus: ‘For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself.’ (John 5:26)

What does that verse mean to you?

To me, it is a prophesy to Jesus giving life to those he judges as worthy for his kingdom at the mercy seat! He grants these ETERNAL LIFE in his world kingdom - this fulfilling the prophesy in Isaiah:

• [He shall be called…] ‘Eternal Father’

I take it you do know that ‘Father’ means:

• ‘He who grants life to…’
• ‘He that brings into being…’
• ‘He that Creates…’
• ‘He who is the Head…’

 

[Soapy]

But you know Jesus did not say "I am God" and you know Jesus did not say "I am not God".

You don't understand what the trinity doctrine is it seems. The argument about Jesus not saying "Me, me, why have I forsaken me?" might apply if you were arguing with a unitarian, not a trinitarian.

But you know Jesus did not say "I am God" and you know Jesus did not say "I am not God".

(Interjection)
It’s not a situation of not understanding what trinity says: We DO understand what trinity says … it’s the fact that what trinity says is INCOMPREHENSIBLE … WRONG in too many ways!

And Jesus DID SAY that he was not God…

He said he was no more ‘God’ than all the other people that THE GOD OF THE JEWS HIMSELF called ‘Gods’. But, in fact, he HAD ONLY SAID that ‘God is my Father’.

Jesus also showed the positional status of God as being greater than his own position: ‘My Father is greater than i…’

Jesus also stated that anything he did was because of the Father: ‘Father, You will know that everything I have is from you’ (John 17:7)

How do you then say: ‘Jesus is Almighty God’?