Problems - The Root Cause

[dybmh]

We see the problem.
There is disharmony, disorder, disunity - even chaos.
This independence from God - the supreme law giver, is the root of all problems.

hmmm. I'm not so sure.

Consider the hermit. Whether or not the hermit adheres to God is completely irrelevent to harmony, order, and unity. The determining factor is whether or not the hermit attempts to establish their own dominion over others. The same is true for those who live in a society. disharmony, disorder, and disunity result from those who try to dominate others. This suggests that dominance is the root of all problems, not independence from God.

However, I will grant you that harmony, order, and unity would benefit if every individual submitted perfectly to the will of God. But I propose that submission is the inverse of dominance. One cannot submit if they are actively in the process of dominating others. This further demonstrates that the ultimate root is dominance, not lack of submission.

 

[nPeace]

Actually, that would be nice. We'd also need a divine court system to settle hard cases.

That's right. One is in place.

Where is that standard to come from though? Not from religious "experts". They can't even agree with each other on what any given scriptures within a particular religion mean, let alone coming to a consensus on all the scriptures of all the religions. And the "supreme law giver" itself seems to be quite uninterested in spelling it all out itself, directly that is, not through human media.

Perhaps the OP can help.
The OP referred to Genesis 3. I quoted the verse.
There were at least three rebels there who chose to be their own god,
All we need to do, is trace the root of the tree, throughout history, and watch at the fruit.

There, you have the answer.
God did not kill the root. It grew into a big tree, with many branches, producing rotten fruit... including false prophets who obviously will disagree, since if a billion people speak something contrary to truth, they will sound like a noisy fish market - never agreeing with truth... or one another. Matthew 7:13-23

God is patient. He does things at his appointed time. He does not rush into things like we do.
The sickle is at the root - ready to cut. It's in the hand of the one whom the court accepted. Daniel 7:13-14; Psalms 2

 

[nPeace]

Some of them, yes. A little humility never hurt anyone. That doesn't make his comment unreasonable, though.

Of course not, but I meet arrogance with arrogance... on these forums.
Besides, he's only attacking me because he's still smarting from a previous run in.
The words mean nothing. They are simply character attacks, which atheist tend to use when their arguments are destroyed.

 

[nPeace]

Exactly, that's what my first thought was too

Also

Humans, being so infinitesimal in this huge Universe
Making absolute truth claims, is a big joke
Better be humble...realize we are
Specks of dust in the Universe

That's the point stvdv.
The claim that there is no absolute truth is the excuse to claim each person can have their own truth... and it be truth.
Understand now?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That's the point stvdv.
The claim that there is no absolute truth is the excuse to claim each person can have their own truth... and it be truth.
Understand now?

I get it now. I am the absolute truth and thus you are not. That was easy. Your arguments are destroyed, since I am the absolute truth and you are not.

 

[nPeace]

hmmm. I'm not so sure.

Consider the hermit. Whether or not the hermit adheres to God is completely irrelevent to harmony, order, and unity. The determining factor is whether or not the hermit attempts to establish their own dominion over others. The same is true for those who live in a society. disharmony, disorder, and disunity result from those who try to dominate others. This suggests that dominance is the root of all problems, not independence from God.

However, I will grant you that harmony, order, and unity would benefit if every individual submitted perfectly to the will of God. But I propose that submission is the inverse of dominance. One cannot submit if they are actively in the process of dominating others. This further demonstrates that the ultimate root is dominance, not lack of submission.

Dominance cannot be a branch and root at the same time. Would you agree?
So are there traits that lead to improper dominance? (Dominance isn't a bad thing in itself)

 

[nPeace]

I get it now. I am the absolute truth and thus you are not. That was easy. Your arguments are destroyed, since I am the absolute truth and you are not.

I guess when you die, there will be no absolute truth.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I guess when you die, there will be no absolute truth.

Right back at you.

 

[nPeace]

Right back at you.

How can that be back at me? I never claimed to be absolute truth.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How can that be back at me? I never claimed to be absolute truth.

Sorry, so we agree. It is not the absolute truth that there is a God?

 

[nPeace]

Sorry, so we agree. It is not the absolute truth that there is a God?

I see evidence for God. If God is, that is an absolute truth... which none of us can change.
I therefore cannot agree with your believe that it is not the absolute truth that there is a God.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

I see evidence for God. If God is, that is an absolute truth... which none of us can change.
I therefore cannot agree with your believe that it is not the absolute truth that there is a God.

Then we disagree.

 

[nPeace]

Then we disagree.

That depends. On what? That we are on RF? Yes.
Oh. You said disagree. My eyes. Blame my eyes.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That depends. On what? That we are on RF? Yes.

We disagree on what absolute truth is.

 

[nPeace]

We disagree on what absolute truth is.

We do? I'm not sure we do. What is absolute truth to you?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

We do? I'm not sure we do. What is absolute truth to you?

An idea, some people believe. I don't.

 

[nPeace]

An idea, some people believe. I don't.

Let me guess. You don't believe. You know. Right?
So when you are wrong, what do you call that?

 

[stvdv]

That's the point stvdv.
The claim that there is no absolute truth is the excuse to claim each person can have their own truth... and it be truth.
Understand now?

This I understand already a long time ago

 

[Alien826]

That's right. One is in place.

If you are talking about some kind of after-life judgment, then that is no use whatsoever to us here on Earth. Otherwise, please explain.

Perhaps the OP can help.
The OP referred to Genesis 3. I quoted the verse.
There were at least three rebels there who chose to be their own god,
All we need to do, is trace the root of the tree, throughout history, and watch at the fruit.

There, you have the answer.
God did not kill the root. It grew into a big tree, with many branches, producing rotten fruit... including false prophets who obviously will disagree, since if a billion people speak something contrary to truth, they will sound like a noisy fish market - never agreeing with truth... or one another. Matthew 7:13-23

God is patient. He does things at his appointed time. He does not rush into things like we do.
The sickle is at the root - ready to cut. It's in the hand of the one whom the court accepted. Daniel 7:13-14; Psalms 2

You are just making my point for me. What you are doing is picking one religion's interpretation of one scriptural passage and claiming that is the Truth and all the others are false (by implication). Devotees of other religions, or other opinions within yours, could make statements that contradict yours, just as dogmatically. Where do we go from there?

 

[Alien826]

Of course not, but I meet arrogance with arrogance... on these forums.
Besides, he's only attacking me because he's still smarting from a previous run in.
The words mean nothing. They are simply character attacks, which atheist tend to use when their arguments are destroyed.

It's good that you admit it, but will you also admit that "two wrongs make a right" is not a particularly logical argument?