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Homosexuality and religious.

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I don't try to stop others from having an opinion about difficult topics:)
And sexual topics are difficult to discuss because they are so personal.

I living in a hetrosexual relationship with out sex. Because non of us wish to have children, and she is allergic to latex.

Good for you. I like that it works for you. I do it differently with my significant other.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
And this particular topic isn't even the worst one. My personal favorite was that copper would turn to gold if left alone for 70 years. I recall that one being defended. One simply cannot imagine what other stuff is hidden in B's yet to be translated or other writings.

There is much to consider on that subject.

This article by Sen raised much discussion online.

Copper to Gold?

Regards Tony
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
But the Baha'i leadership does interfere. The Faith does not want them being openly gay and saying they are Baha'is. So, it is no longer personal. And it is other Baha'is that reports them to the LSA's and NSA's.

Meet A Baha’i Activist Pushing For LGBTQ Tolerance In His Faith

Baha’u’llah made the laws and I trust in His wisdom. Accepting Baha’u’llah and His laws is fundamental to Baha’i belief. One cannot be a Baha’i and at the same time be against Baha’u’llah.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
That is the quote that is used to make the law that makes homosexuality forbidden? I asked if it specifically mentions "homosexuality"

And you said, "yes".


But it doesn't mention homosexuality. So, who made the law that does specifically say that homosexuality is forbidden?

The word homosexuality was not used until around 1868 and was not common. The verse says it but in different words.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Are there three main Gods? Shiva, Vishnu and Brahma? Or like many Christians believe? The Father, the Son and Holy Spirit? Since we don't know, then we shouldn't rule these out? But the Baha'i Faith does rule those concepts of God out. The Baha'i concept is what the one true God is really like. And how do we know this? Because the Baha'i prophet said so.

The Manifestations of God make it abundantly clear there is only One God.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And my Evangelical Christian friends say that we must turn to Jesus... that he is coming soon. That many false prophets will arise in the last days and will fool many. So, if the Baha'is are right, those Christians are wrong. Or maybe both of you are wrong. And how would we know unless we check out what the religions are saying and doing.

It is for each person to decide for him or herself.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And it is a human that tells as the absolute truth about a God that he claims sent him. And we know some people that claim things like that are phonies. So, can we look at this thing about homosexuality unbiased, you know, with no preconceived beliefs about it being right or wrong. Baha'is can't do that. They are told what they must believe about homosexuality.

I believe the human mind is imperfect and that only through the Holy Spirit embedded in the writings of the Manifestation can certainty be attained.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Here's the quote again. It says that "ye" have been called to purge the world of these things. How are you going to do that? And this is Baha'u'llah calling "ye" to do this.

So, lecherous people, sodomizers, and adulterers are all welcome and considered equals? Because homosexuals get dumped into this same category.

Yes, within ourselves not others. I can only change myself not others.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
There is much to consider on that subject.

This article by Sen raised much discussion online.

Copper to Gold?

Regards Tony
I think it is just black is really white, up is really down apologetics.

Baha'u'llah said,
'For instance, consider the substance of copper. Were it to be protected in its own mine from becoming solidified, it would, within the space of seventy years, attain to the state of gold. There are some, however, who maintain that copper itself is gold, which by becoming solidified is in a diseased condition, and hath not therefore reached its own state.

Be that as it may, the real elixir will, in one instant, cause the substance of copper to attain the state of gold, and will traverse the seventy-year stages in a single moment. Could this gold be called copper? Could it be claimed that it hath not attained the state of gold, whilst the touch-stone is at hand to assay it and distinguish it from copper?

Likewise, these souls, through the potency of the Divine Elixir, traverse, in the twinkling of an eye, the world of dust and advance into the realm of holiness'

It is an analogy which Baha'u'llah likens to the transmutation of copper to gold as being like the change from materialistic souls to holy ones.

If copper were symbolic of materialistic souls and gold were symbolic of holy ones His analogy would be likening something to itself - which doesn't make sense if you are trying to explain something via analogy.

It is clear that Baha'u'llah did not consider the transmutation of copper to gold to be a part of alchemy, rather He considered it to be a part of science and in that He only demonstrated His own superstition.

In my opinion.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I think it is just black is really white, up is really down apologetics.

Baha'u'llah said,
'For instance, consider the substance of copper. Were it to be protected in its own mine from becoming solidified, it would, within the space of seventy years, attain to the state of gold. There are some, however, who maintain that copper itself is gold, which by becoming solidified is in a diseased condition, and hath not therefore reached its own state.

Be that as it may, the real elixir will, in one instant, cause the substance of copper to attain the state of gold, and will traverse the seventy-year stages in a single moment. Could this gold be called copper? Could it be claimed that it hath not attained the state of gold, whilst the touch-stone is at hand to assay it and distinguish it from copper?

Likewise, these souls, through the potency of the Divine Elixir, traverse, in the twinkling of an eye, the world of dust and advance into the realm of holiness'

It is an analogy which Baha'u'llah likens to the transmutation of copper to gold as being like the change from materialistic souls to holy ones.

If copper were symbolic of materialistic souls and gold were symbolic of holy ones His analogy would be likening something to itself - which doesn't make sense if you are trying to explain something via analogy.

It is clear that Baha'u'llah did not consider the transmutation of copper to gold to be a part of alchemy, rather He considered it to be a part of science and in that He only demonstrated His own superstition.

In my opinion.

The problem is that science has changed for what we know of the everyday world, but the writings has not. This is just one example.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
That is pretty disingenuous since atheism is not "the idea there is no deity" atheism is simply the lack or absence of belief.

Admit? Who on earth ever suggested human reasoning could be infallible, this is just a straw man you've created. The reason your flawed reasoning is so obviously weak, is because it is demonstrably irrational, I've pointed out several logical fallacies you keep using, and you've rolled passed this fact without bothering to even acknowledge it. So you obvioysly don't care that that your reasoning is irrational, but that nonetheless means anyone who understands this, will not accept such claims. Like your constant appeal to authority fallacies, since your prophet was human, ipso facto his reasoning cannot be infallible, by your own admission, not without using a special pleading fallacy, which you also have used, and another poster pointed out to you.

Without wishing to be rude or unkind you don't have even the most basic grasp of how to analyse claims rationally, and it's clear you don't care, as all you need do is learn what these fallacies are and what they mean.

Leave aside theistic belief, the fact is you have never learned to reason critically, if you had you'd see how risible many of your claims are, but then I suppose that's a strong motive for remaining ignorant of the most basic logical principles. To preserve a single belief you obviously are emotionally invested in.

There is no belief I wouldn't relinquish if sufficient objective evidence demonstrated it was false. There is no belief I am 100% certain of, I don't even believe that is epistemologically possible. There is no belief I would hold on faith, and no belief I would treat any differently than any other claim.

You quite demonstrably can't say the same. I understand human reason must necessarily be fallible, you don't, as you keep insisting a human's reasoning is an infallible message from a deity, without any objective evidence and that is a special pleading fallacy.

I have all the objective evidence for myself that proves to me that God sent Baha’u’llah. It is for each to investigate the matter for himself and go with that. It is up to you if you do likewise or not.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
I have all the objective evidence for myself that proves to me that God sent Baha’u’llah. It is for each to investigate the matter for himself and go with that. It is up to you if you do likewise or not.

And there you went and did what your kind newer do according to at least some of the other member of your faith. They divide faith and evidence.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
So if we are all Bahia's and we disagree on how to combine God and science, then what?

What do you mean by combine God and science? My understanding is that God is the greatest Scientist as He created us. Human scientists are only learning about what God has given us. But we didn’t create anything.
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
What do you mean by combine God and science? My understanding is that God is the greatest Scientist as He created us. Human scientists are only learning about what God has given us. But we didn’t create anything.

Yeah, so you claim objective authority over all humans through God and science, because you have objective evidence. At least you show your colours and you are honest. That is good.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
And there you went and did what your kind newer do according to at least some of the other member of your faith. They divide faith and evidence.

I investigated Baha’u’llah. and discovered from His Life, Words and teachings that He was sent by God. For me the evidence was overwhelming.
 

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Yes, to you. That is not objective to me. That is subjective faith.

I can only speak for myself. I believe I was objective. I became a Baha’i by criticising it. I accidentally found out what I did. I was vehemently opposed to God and religion and considered the concept of God a mental illness and crutch but surprisingly discovered I was wrong. And I can’t lie to myself about what I discovered because I believe in being true to oneself.
 
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