Homosexuality and religious.

[Sheldon]

Without a female egg and male sperm our race cannot continue. The most natural and efficient process is through the binding of a man and a woman.

So what? And of course, they could be a gay man and a gay woman, or one of them gay and the other straight.

two men cannot produce a female egg and a male sperm naturally unless one has a sec change. Then that perso

So what? How does being gay threaten human existence as you claimed?

 

[Sheldon]

I try to use "a person" "some people" "one"(can), etc.

"People who think other people need to stop being gay"...

People who think other people need to stop being gay for whatever reason is bigotry. Those people not only do not lije homosexuals, they are also trying to tell someone how to live their life.

Bigotry:
obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

However one can not agree with it and not be a bigot.
Don't agree/disagree
To not share the same opinion or feeling as someone.

I never brought up approve or disapprove. All I said was "don't agree".

Answer these two questions and it might help clear things up a bit...

Some people like eating snails because they are good.
I don't agree. I think its gross.
-do I hate snail eaters?
-do I have snailophobia?

Eating snails is a choice, being gay isn't. If someone said they didn't agree with black people having equal rights, but didn't hate them, we'd describe them as racist. All the facile semantics in the world won't help, as prejudice against gay people is defined as homophobia.

 

[Sheldon]

Context is important. I said stupid or prejudiced, etc.
You have been calling the Baha'is on this thread prejudiced left and right.

Trailblazer said: Do you ever have anything nice to say, something positive, other than to your fellow atheists?
Everyone who does not agree with you is deemed stupid or prejudiced, etc.

Trailblazer said: ↑
Everyone who does not agree with you is deemed stupid

So you can't even offer a single example to support this, but haven't the decency to even acknowledge it is untrue.

 

[Sheldon]

Well said. However you know others won't go their own way, they must constantly grill you because of your beliefs

The nerve, grilling people over claims in a forum designed specifically for.....no wait, your claim is nonsensical.

Unless someone has zero interest in debate of course, but then why voice those claims in a debate forum, unless it's simply to provoke a reaction then condemn people for daring to have a different opinion, then risibly pretending that challenging prejudice and homophobia is victimisation.

Bless...

 

[Sheldon]

God gave humans freedom of choice. We are completely free to establish peace or destroy ourselves. God sends Messengers offering guidance but we don’t appreciate Them usually killing Them. So what has God done? He sent Baha’u’llah with teachings for world unity and we so far have chosen to have two world wars. So be it. That is our choice. We are never forced to follow God.

So this deity you've imagined is real thinks free will is more important than stopping unimaginable suffering? Sounds like a nasty piece of work, were it an evolved human ape, we'd condemn such inaction out of hand, as indeed you are doing here.

So a child is going to be raped, would you stop that if you could? I know I would, but then I could care less about the free will of someone about to rape a child.

 

[Sheldon]

I have learned to do the same.
I know who is seeking a serious respectful discussion and who is not, and I am no longer interested in the bantering back and forth.

Let them act out, it doesn't bother me. It is simply more entertainment for me.
They only make themselves look silly when they act out.

Are people who lie about what others have posted, in order to simply troll a reaction, seeking a serious discussion?

I have my own opinion of course, but this be a debate forum I'm curious about the opinion of others.

 

[Trailblazer]

So you can't even offer a single example to support this, but haven't the decency to even acknowledge it is untrue.

In case you did not see my post, I already acknowledged that it was untrue and I apologized to you for my mistake.
I hoped that would be enough to end this bantering.

 

[Sheldon]

So even with critical thinking the human mind is error prone and cannot be fully relied upon.

It's all we have though see, inventing an imaginary deity, then insisting obviously flawed human ideas like homophobia are perfectly moral because they came from this imaginary deity, is the same human reasoning, just used poorly and uncritically.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are people who lie about what others have posted, in order to simply troll a reaction, seeking a serious discussion?

I might forget things that I said, but I never lie.
Maybe if you had been married for 37 years and just lost your wife, the only person you have left in this world, you would not be at your best. It is all I can do to just keep from taking my own life.

But I have already apologized to you for my mistake. I hoped that would be enough.

 

[Sheldon]

So we Baha’is choose to place our full trust and confidence in the perfection of God instead rather than the error prone human mind.

What are you using to do that?

 

[Sheldon]

I might forget things that I said, but I never lie.
Maybe if you had been married for 37 years and just lost your wife, the only person you have left in this world, you would not be at your best. It is all I can do to just keep from taking my own life.

But I have already apologized to you for my mistake. I hoped that would be enough.

Then I accept your apology, as I missed your post.

You have my sympathies, and my wife for the record left one day while I was in work, I got a note, followed by a solicitors letter, and after living off me for 20 years, she took every penny I had the same day I lost my job. I'd been saving to retire through I'll health, working silly hours while she worked part time. We had no children, a sacrifice I made so that she could repair her relationship with her children from the first marriage. I owned the house before we met, and paid off the mortgage before we married, and she took half its value, to run off with someone else. The grandchildren have been brought to visit me once in the last 3 years. She's made zero effort to help them see me, and even threatened to stop me seeing them in the note.

I'm now working 70 hours a week 250 miles from my home to try and have enough to live on. On prescription pain killers.

I've reached the stage where life starts to take, instead of give, but I remain as positive as I can, because being depressed won't help anything.

You never know what others are going through, and pain though a subjective concept, is likely something most people have to deal with, if they're lucky it's an infrequent occurrence, I've not been so lucky, but hey ho...

 

[Sheldon]

Dude!!! Do you agree with everyone on everything? If not do you hate those you disagree with?

Homophobia need not involve hate, or fear, only a prejudice that gay people shouldn't be treated equally.

 

[samtonga43]

Hmmm.




Uh huh.

How can one person have so little insight?

 

[loverofhumanity]

That's what we're having a problem with. You believe you religion and obey everything it says. It's your religion that has passed judgement on homosexuals. Therefore, as a true believer in the Baha'i Faith, you also are passing judgement on homosexuals. They should not have sex... man on man and woman on woman. Your religion says it is wrong and forbids it, and you have committed yourself to believe that.

And some Baha'is do make it their business and report gay Baha'is. Have you read their stories? If not, why not? Shouldn't other Baha'is at least have enough compassion to listen to what they are saying?

My beliefs and laws apply only to me as a member of my faith no one else. We are told not to judge anyone but ourselves as these laws apply only to ourselves. Baha’is personal lives are between them and God.

But some situations are the exception. We had a gay Baha’i in our community and at the weekly service at the House of Worship he was openly making sexual advances to another person. That person complained and the person was sent the Baha’i Writings on the topic. Needless to say a religious service should be treated as a devotional event not for sexual activities. Any sexual advances gay or not at a religious service is very disrespectful. Our LSA gave him the writings but he was never disciplined. Eventually he left the Faith. Our religion is not to be used as a gay nightclub to pick up people. It is a religion to learn to be virtuous so it is not for everyone.

He still keeps contact with Baha’is and is a good friend and liked.

 

[samtonga43]

I might forget things that I said, but I never lie.
Maybe if you had been married for 37 years and just lost your wife, the only person you have left in this world, you would not be at your best. It is all I can do to just keep from taking my own life.

You appear to believe that you are unique in terms of suffering, Tb. You are not.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You appear to believe that you are unique in terms of suffering, Tb. You are not.

One thing I have noticed over the years is that some people treat their individual way of coping as special yet universal as for how all humans should do it.
And that is not unique for religion. I do it too, if I don't check my thinking and emotions.

 

[loverofhumanity]

It is forbidden by the rules of the Baha'i Faith. It's not just "personnel". The Baha'i Faith puts it in the same category as adultery. So, Baha'is don't and should not pass judgement on Baha'is that are committing adultery? They should not interfere? Baha'is believe it is wrong, but they should mind their own business and let the person continue in their adulterous behavior? Are you sure that is what Baha'is are supposed to do?

In my recent post I explained that it is between the individual and God until they begin acting out of order like that Baha’i making sexual advances at Baha’i services which offended the person. There are boundaries we cannot cross. A Baha’i may struggle with his sexual desires both homosexual and heterosexual all his life and not be troubled. But when it causes harm to the community then it needs to be addressed.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

In my recent post I explained that it is between the individual and God until they begin acting out of order like that Baha’i making sexual advances at Baha’i services which offended the person. There are boundaries we cannot cross. A Baha’i may struggle with his sexual desires both homosexual and heterosexual all his life and not be troubled. But when it causes harm to the community then it needs to be addressed.

But that is only harn, because of the belief. If you didn't have that belief, it wouldn't be harm.

 

[samtonga43]

"You wouldn't know if the Bible is right or wrong"

How does anyone really even know if the bible has been interpreted correctly?

Know? It is impossible to know if one's interpretation is correct, but since the Bible incorporates many different types and genres, it is more likely to be correct if one takes these into account. Otherwise, one may believe that she/he ought to hate her/his parents.
Here is just one place where you can learn more if you want to.
Why is knowing the different Bible genres helpful in interpreting the Bible?

 

[loverofhumanity]

Kind of like how religious beliefs are passed down through generations that can affect the morals of modern believers for the worse.

It depends on the beliefs. Baha’is are forbidden to get involved with politics. However recently in a country with a dictatorship some did involve themselves against Baha’i laws resulting in a number of Baha’is being tortured to death and putting the entire Baha’i community in danger. Our laws are there for our benefit.