Let them come to us.

[F1fan]

Would it be less confrontation and heated debate if religious people let the agnostics and ateists come to them, instead of trying to "save" the ateists?

Your point here is accurate, that atheism tends to be a response to theists and their claims in public and society in general, especially actions that violate law, like teaching Christian ideas in schools. When creationists made a huge effort to take over the Kansas school board in the 1990's it resulted in an equally huge response, and helped bring atheists to the forefront of society as good stewards of the constitution and freedom. Even liberal and moderate theists were on the side of atheists in resisting the creationists.

It look like many atheists are curious about why religious people believe what they do.
But how can religious people give an answer that the atheists are satisfied with?

It's not satisfaction that atheists look for, it is reasonable beliefs. If you look close at disalogs most atheists are tolerant of theists and their rituals. It is what theists challenge what is reasonable, or logical, or factual, or knowledge then atheists, and even liberal theists, will chime in with corrections.

So correct, logical, factual, reasonable answers is what atheists are looking for. If a theist can't provide these then the dialog will continue. We do see some theists get upset that their particular beliefs are not accepted by atheists, as if the theist is loooking for approval and support. That is an issue that isn't ideally part of debate.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Are you?

I trying to be, but some people i debated do close me down, and i get stuborn.

 

[F1fan]

I have not noticed that many are curious about why religious people believe.

In my experience it is apparent that many theists don't understand why they believe at all. Many, if not most, theists have adopted a set of beliefs from their social experience and then wear these beliefs as if they are necessary and crucial. Very few can, or are able, to step back from their religious beliefs and examine why they are religious at all. Atheists get along fine without belief, why can't theists?

 

[Audie]

I trying to be, but some people i debated do close me down, and i get stuborn.

I wasn't even referring to what is said here.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Would it be less confrontation and heated debate if religious people let the agnostics and ateists come to them, instead of trying to "save" the atheists?

I'm having a hard time "saving" myself, let alone anybody else.

 

[Alien826]

It's a bit like a vegetarian-omnivore debate. As you said, 'Why care so much?'

Your example supports the opposite case.

Vegetarians, in many cases, believe passionately in "animal rights" and want others to stop eating meat for that reason. Some atheists believe that religions are the "root of all evil" and whatever they can do to change theists' beliefs supports a better world. Some Christians believe that they are literally saving someone's life if they can "convert" them.

That's why they "care so much".

I avoid discussions on animal rights because it upsets me. I come here because I enjoy debate and don't get much of it in real life. In my time here I have (outside the really weird stuff) yet to hear an argument pro or con religion that I haven't heard before, but it's still fun.

On the other hand, as Brian said "You are all individuals!" (And the crowd replied in chorus "Yes, we are all individuals").

 

[Jimmy]

Would it be less confrontation and heated debate if religious people let the agnostics and ateists come to them, instead of trying to "save" the ateists?

It look like many atheists are curious about why religious people believe what they do.
But how can religious people give an answer that the atheists are satisfied with?

Can we please try to keep the debate civilized

Would it be less confrontation and heated debate if religious people let the agnostics and ateists come to them, instead of trying to "save" the ateists?

It look like many atheists are curious about why religious people believe what they do.
But how can religious people give an answer that the atheists are satisfied with?

Can we please try to keep the debate civilized

Rarely an atheist will change and more than likely it wont happen here. alot of atheists here like to bicker back and forth with religious people.

 

[MikeF]

Why care so much about what another person believes?

Because, like it or not, what one believes affects how one participates in society which affects everyone.

 

[Alien826]

Rarely an atheist will change and more than likely it wont happen here. a lot of atheists here like to bicker back and forth with religious people.

Something you never see with religious people.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Would it be less confrontation and heated debate if religious people let the agnostics and ateists come to them, instead of trying to "save" the ateists?

It look like many atheists are curious about why religious people believe what they do.
But how can religious people give an answer that the atheists are satisfied with?

Can we please try to keep the debate civilized

That would be nicer than trying to force them with fear of hell. Not that Baha'is do that, but we do know that some religions do.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Would it be less confrontation and heated debate if religious people let the agnostics and ateists come to them, instead of trying to "save" the ateists?

It look like many atheists are curious about why religious people believe what they do.
But how can religious people give an answer that the atheists are satisfied with?

Can we please try to keep the debate civilized

I think a religion needs to speak for itself and not by tooting its own horn.

If something requires a continuous recurring need for convincing others on regular basis, then it's likely not worth pursuing as it shows and demonstrates a lack of any merit and veracity.

Letting people come and leave on their own accord would be the best venue.

 

[ppp]

Rarely an atheist will change and more than likely it wont happen here. alot of atheists here like to bicker back and forth with religious people.

Most atheists that you encounter have changed.

 

[Audie]

Your example supports the opposite case.

Vegetarians, in many cases, believe passionately in "animal rights" and want others to stop eating meat for that reason. Some atheists believe that religions are the "root of all evil" and whatever they can do to change theists' beliefs supports a better world. Some Christians believe that they are literally saving someone's life if they can "convert" them.

That's why they "care so much".

I avoid discussions on animal rights because it upsets me. I come here because I enjoy debate and don't get much of it in real life. In my time here I have (outside the really weird stuff) yet to hear an argument pro or con religion that I haven't heard before, but it's still fun.

On the other hand, as Brian said "You are all individuals!" (And the crowd replied in chorus "Yes, we are all individuals").

Many cases of anything get extreme.
So what.

 

[Audie]

Most atheists that you encounter have changed.

I don't bicker. I inform.

 

[Sheldon]

IMHO atheists/agnostics are people who already made up their mind.

Well there goes another irony meter. An agnostic is someone who believes nothing is known or can be known about a deity, so wrong, and wrong. An atheist is someone who lacks belief in any deity or deities, all that is required for that, and I speak only for myself, is that insufficient objective evidence has been offered to support the claim, and since none has been offered, I remain without theistic belief. My mind will follow the objective evidence, and rational arguments, if any theists ever present any.

 

[CharmingOwl]

You're right trying to "save" a person from a belief system will always come off as disrespectful to their autonomy. Even in North Korea when people go to them with the attitude of "Saving" them from their beliefs it does nothing but come off as insulting and it comes from the assumption people don't have legitimate reasons to believe whatever they believe.

Also atheists have a lot of misconceptions regarding why people believe stuff. If the gods really did everything the mythology says it does not matter at the end of the day. Those stories are more of the culture of the spiritual tradition in my opinion and I don't even think you need to believe them all.

 

[Vinayaka]

I think a religion needs to speak for itself and not by tooting its own horn.

If something requires a continuous recurring need for convincing others on regular basis, then it's likely not worth pursuing as it shows and demonstrates a lack of any merit and veracity.

Letting people come and leave on their own accord would be the best venue.

This reminded me of langar.

 

[ppp]

I don't bicker. I inform.

I can do both simultaneously.

 

[Alien826]

Many cases of anything get extreme.
So what.

So people care about things.

 

[Audie]

I can do both simultaneously.

Rats. Outdone again