The Source of Rights

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Actually, no.

The Declaration of Independence opened the door for emancipation.;.. read it again and look at the wording.

Do you know what Somerset v. Stewart is?

From the decision:

The state of slavery is of such a nature that it is incapable of being introduced on any reasons, moral or political, but only by positive law, which preserves its force long after the reasons, occasions, and time itself from whence it was created, is erased from memory. It is so odious, that nothing can be suffered to support it, but positive law. Whatever inconveniences, therefore, may follow from the decision, I cannot say this case is allowed or approved by the law of England; and therefore the black must be discharged.

Whatever hypocritical language was in the Declaration of Independence, the effect of it was to remove the American colonies from under the jurisdiction of a court system that had just established the precedent that slaves had human rights.

The British Empire was already on a course to emancipation of slaves. It got there through a series of measures that ended with full emancipation in 1831.

... 34 years before the US finally passed the 13th Amendment in 1865.

We can debate the intent behind the Declaration of Independence - and one school of thought that a major factor behind why independence was declared when it was was the desire of slave states to preserve slavery in light of the Somerset decision - but the effect if the Declaration of Independence was to prolong slavery and delay liberty.

 

[Kenny]

Do you know what Somerset v. Stewart is?

From the decision:



Whatever hypocritical language was in the Declaration of Independence, the effect of it was to remove the American colonies from under the jurisdiction of a court system that had just established the precedent that slaves had human rights.

The British Empire was already on a course to emancipation of slaves. It got there through a series of measures that ended with full emancipation in 1831.

... 34 years before the US finally passed the 13th Amendment in 1865.

We can debate the intent behind the Declaration of Independence - and one school of thought that a major factor behind why independence was declared when it was was the desire of slave states to preserve slavery in light of the Somerset decision - but the effect if the Declaration of Independence was to prolong slavery and delay liberty.

I disagree... the effect of it was the 13th Amendment. You might want to read the wording again.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree... the effect of it was the 13th Amendment. You might want to read the wording again.

It's like talking to a brick wall.

If there had been no Declaration of Independence, slavery would have ended in the American colonies more than 3 decades before the 13th Amendment.

 

[Kenny]

It's like talking to a brick wall.

If there had been no Declaration of Independence, slavery would have ended in the American colonies more than 3 decades before the 13th Amendment.

It's like someone who keeps driving when there are signs saying "bridge out"; "stop", "turn around" and a man waving the driver down but he keeps going forward.

What part of "all men are created equal" did you not understand? They saw it WAY before it was abolished.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's like someone who keeps driving when there are signs saying "bridge out"; "stop", "turn around" and a man waving the driver down but he keeps going forward.

What part of "all men are created equal" did you not understand? They saw it WAY before it was abolished.

But they didn't. We know that they didn't see things this way because they owned human beings as property and denied them their liberty.

These were the words of either:

- a hypocrite, or
- someone who didn't view their slaves as "men".

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You see the real character and value of people in their actions, and the actions of most of those who signed the Declaration of Independence was to oppose liberty.

... and the effect of the Declaration of Independence was to delay emancipation for 34 years longer than if they had done nothing at all.

 

[Kenny]

But they didn't. We know that they didn't see things this way because they owned human beings as property and denied them their liberty.

These were the words of either:

- a hypocrite, or
- someone who didn't view their slaves as "men".

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You see the real character and value of people in their actions, and the actions of most of those who signed the Declaration of Independence was to oppose liberty.

... and the effect of the Declaration of Independence was to delay emancipation for 34 years longer than if they had done nothing at all.

Opinion

they did know - but knew that it would be a process - because many didn’t have slaves and were against slavery

They left the door open to abolition

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Opinion

they did know - but knew that it would be a process - because many didn’t have slaves and were against slavery

41 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence owned slaves.

They left the door open to abolition

The door to abolition was already open. Independence impeded abolition.

 

[Kenny]

41 of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence owned slaves.


The door to abolition was already open. Independence impeded abolition.

I disagree

the Declaration opened the door

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I disagree

the Declaration opened the door

History shows that it delayed it.
And eventually to civil war.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I disagree

the Declaration opened the door

If that were the case, then why do you think slavery was abolished in Britain's Caribbean colonies - economically dependent on slavery just as much as the American South - decades before it was banned in the US?

 

[Kenny]

History shows that it delayed it.
And eventually to civil war.

Yes - no arguments there - women’s suffrage was also delayed


But that wasn’t the point at hand

 

[Kenny]

If that were the case, then why do you think slavery was abolished in Britain's Caribbean colonies - economically dependent on slavery just as much as the American South - decades before it was banned in the US?

Hard hearts of men - calloused by constant resistance against God’s Holy Spirit

Thank God for spiritually sensitive people like Wilberforce who let God use him even through great resistance

God made humankind equal - some May not want it or believe it

in light of my signature

 

[metis]

My rights are not issued by government or social contracts.

Go rob a bank and see what happens to you.

 

[Truth in love]

Then do not be surprised when they are ignored by people with other beliefs.

I'm not surprised. I just refuse to consent to such evils.

 

[metis]

God made humankind equal - some May not want it or believe it

Yes, but it is also clear that the American colonists and then the Founding Fathers didn't see it that way.

 

[Truth in love]

Go rob a bank and see what happens to you.

I would be arrested for violating the property rights of others.

 

[metis]

I would be arrested for violating the property rights of others.

Which thus denies your own supposed "rights". Thus, legal rights are determined by the locality that's involved.

 

[Truth in love]

Which thus denies your own supposed "rights". Thus, legal rights are determined by the locality that's involved.

If I kidnap you did you right to freedom end? Or did I wrongfully deny you your just rights as a human?

This make all the difference.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Hard hearts of men - calloused by constant resistance against God’s Holy Spirit

More calloused than the hard-hearted men running the slave-trading British Empire?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would be arrested for violating the property rights of others.

People must live by local laws, not some universal concept of human rights.