There is no evidence for God, so why do you believe?

[Sheldon]

What do mean? I pray to God the Father and Jesus Christ who I know.

He means how do you tell the difference between a prayer you make that was not answered by God and a prayer that was asked to a non existent God? Your claim to knowledge isn't objectively verifiable, no different to someone claiming to know an invisible mermaid.

 

[Subduction Zone]

To you but not to Bible students. Still wondering why you’re in this thread talking about God, I’m glad though.

Sorry, but I do not think that you qualify as a Bible student.

 

[Sheldon]

To you but not to Bible students. Still wondering why you’re in this thread talking about God, I’m glad though.

Then again I recommend you Google public debate forum. So gibberish is part of the teaching for bible students? Who knew.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Sorry, but I do not think that you qualify as a Bible student.

Does your opinion count? No

 

[Subduction Zone]

Does your opinion count? No

It counts more than yours. You have as much as admitted not to being a student.

An apologist is not a student. Your criteria for studying it is easily refuted.

 

[Sheldon]

You post Bible verses, but don’t believe the Bible or understand it but doesn’t bother me. Keep quoting Scripture though, I’m glad for that

What are you claiming I claimed the quote meant, and how was it wrong, and what are you basing your claim on?

It's like herding cats, honestly.

 

[Sheldon]

I love this, so great

You used a subjective anecdotal claim, and your conclusion was a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. You don't seem to have addressed either point, yet again.

 

[Sheldon]

Sorry, but I do not think that you qualify as a Bible student.

Hard to say since all he offered is the usual handwaving dismissal. His posts suggest he believes that he can hide all his claims behind appeal to authority fallacies, using himself as the authority, while pretending he alone understands the bible. Pretty ironic really, given he never explains what is wrong or why.

I chose my avatar as irony, as it struck me as humorous, but it seems to be his actual modus operandi in a debate. The "I'm right you're wrong." argument.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The bible is contradictory and contains passages that support widely differing ideas on prayer. For example:

John 14
13 And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it.

I lost count of how many times I prayed to God in Jesus' name when I was a child and teenager, pleading with God in Jesus' name to save me from being abused by my adopted mother and adopted older brother (click here). I prayed to God in Jesus' name, pleading with God to save me from being bullied and harassed in school. For me, praying to God was like praying to a brick wall and expecting the wall to answer, because in spite of all the years I prayed to God in Jesus' name, I suffered abuse at home for 13 1/2 years and I was bullied in school for 12 years. I finally came to the realization that God wasn't ever going to save me, so I stopped praying to him for a couple of years. I lost hope in him and I resigned myself to the life I knew I could never escape until I turned 18 years old.

I saved myself shortly after I turned 18 when I physically confronted my abusive older brother and told him that I would call the police on him if he ever laid hands on me again. I'm pleased to say that my forceful confrontation with him also made a lasting impression on my adopted mother, because she never laid a hand on me again either. Neither would stay in the same room with me after that.

I had lost my hope in God, but I had been indoctrinated into believing in him no matter what, so I foolishly became a Christian when I was 17. As the Bible states in Romans 10:9-13 about getting saved, I believed in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and I declared him Lord. I still remember the moment I prayed to be saved vividly because I felt absolutely nothing in my heart when I accepted Jesus. I didn't feel the peace, joy, or hope that I was expecting to feel after hearing other Christians talk about how they felt such peace and joy in their hearts when they accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. I wanted that more than anything else in life. These Christians said that their burdens were lifted and they felt hope again. All I felt at the time was the usual pain and sadness.

I can't emphasize just how deeply disappointed I was when I didn't feel my burdens lifted or feel hope in God again. I was completely overwhelmed with sadness and a feeling of hopelessness. I foolishly held on to my Christian faith for the next 30 years while willingly ignoring the nagging reminder in my heart that God didn't save me when I was growing up. I was a very devout Christian because I had been taught that the more devout I was to God, the more likely he was to answer my prayers. The Bible states, "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective" (James 5:16), and I sincerely believed Jesus' promise, "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son." "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14).

I renounced my Christian faith and belief in God about a year and a half ago. It was very difficult for me to let go of my belief in God because I had believed in him all my life and I had been a Christian for 30 years. As far as I'm concerned now, either the Christian God doesn't actually exist and I was a complete fool for believing he did, or the Christian God does exist and he's a malicious and sadistic monster who takes pleasure in watching me and the rest of humanity suffer. I'm an agnostic now, so I could go either way on this.

 

[Sheldon]

Does your opinion count? No

Ironic given all you post are subjective opinions. Maybe you could explain what qualifications you have as a bible scholar, that makes you think you can simply dismiss anyone else's opinion without any explanation or evidence, if they dare disagree with yours?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Hard to say since all he offered is the usual handwaving dismissal. His posts suggest he believes that he can hide all his claims behind appeal to authority fallacies, using himself as the authority. pretty ironic really, given he never explains what is wrong or why.

I chose my avatar as irony, as it struck me as humorous, but it seems to be his actual modus operandi in a debate. The "I'm right you're wrong." argument.

He once cited a source, misspelled of course, for his supposed exegesis. Unfortunately since it justified peoples usage of their personal version of the "Holy Spirit" in interpretation and allowed for far too much eisegesis.

 

[Sheldon]

I lost count of how many times I prayed to God in Jesus' name when I was a child and teenager, pleading with God in Jesus' name to save me from being abused by my adopted mother and adopted older brother (click here). I prayed to God in Jesus' name, pleading with God to save me from being bullied and harassed in school. For me, praying to God was like praying to a brick wall and expecting the wall to answer, because in spite of all the years I prayed to God in Jesus' name, I suffered abuse at home for 13 1/2 years and I was bullied in school for 12 years. I finally came to the realization that God wasn't ever going to save me, so I stopped praying to him for a couple of years. I lost hope in him and I resigned myself to the life I knew I could never escape until I turned 18 years old.

I saved myself shortly after I turned 18 when I physically confronted my abusive older brother and told him that I would call the police on him if he ever laid hands on me again. I'm pleased to say that my forceful confrontation with him also made a lasting impression on my adopted mother, because she never laid a hand on me again either. Neither would stay in the same room with me after that.

I had lost my hope in God, but I had been indoctrinated into believing in him no matter what, so I foolishly became a Christian when I was 17. As the Bible states in Romans 10:9-13 about getting saved, I believed in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and I declared him Lord. I still remember the moment I prayed to be saved vividly because I felt absolutely nothing in my heart when I accepted Jesus. I didn't feel the peace, joy, or hope that I was expecting to feel after hearing other Christians talk about how they felt such peace and joy in their hearts when they accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. I wanted that more than anything else in life. These Christians said that their burdens were lifted and they felt hope again. All I felt at the time was the usual pain and sadness.

I can't emphasize just how deeply disappointed I was when I didn't feel my burdens lifted or feel hope in God again. I was completely overwhelmed with sadness and a feeling of hopelessness. I foolishly held on to my Christian faith for the next 30 years while willingly ignoring the nagging reminder in my heart that God never helped me when I was growing up. I was a very devout Christian because I had been taught that the more devout I was to God, the more likely he was to answer my prayers. The Bible states, "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective" (James 5:16), and I sincerely believed Jesus' promise, "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son." "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14).

I renounced my Christian faith and belief in God about a year and a half ago. It was very difficult for me to let go of my belief in God because I had believed in him all my life and I had been a Christian for 30 years. As far as I'm concerned now, either the Christian God doesn't actually exist and I was a complete fool for believing he did, or the Christian God does exist and he's a malicious and sadistic monster who takes pleasure in watching me and the rest of humanity suffer.

Well I'm a little in awe of this, I have nothing but respect for how you not only endured this appalling abuse, but had the strength to halt it the minute you were old enough and able to confront your abusers. Your point about your unanswered prayers also make a startlingly salient point, since if a deity existed and yet sat by and ignored the genuine appeals of a child under such horrific circumstances it would indeed be a sadistic monster, by any objective standard.

 

[Sheldon]

Clizby Wampuscat said: ↑
I am not sure how else to ask the question. A prayer to a god that does not exist or a prayer to a god that chooses not to grant the prayer have the exact same result. So I guess it comes down to why you believe a god exists?

When I got saved the covenant I made with God was to turn away from all sin and trust Him with my life. My life is not my own, He can do whatever He wants with me. He has made me an heir and adopted me, given me eternal life. So for God not to say yes and give me everything I ask in prayer can be hard sometimes because I don’t understand it at the time. The more life goes on and I continue to trust and seek Him the less I feel the need to get my own way.

And the question @Clizby Wampuscat asked, how can you objectively differentiating between prayers unanswered by a deity, and no deity existing to answer them?

 

[Sheldon]

Every prayer gets answered

Well God delivered me and answers many prayers, sometimes the answer is no or wait.

you're not getting this are you, what is the objective difference between what you perceive as a no to a prayer, and no deity existing to answer a prayer?

 

[AdamjEdgar]

My answer to the original OP question...
People play lotto in the hope that they can win despite the overwhelming odds against winning.being known and regularly advertised.

Despite the unfavourable lotto statistics, I still hear individuals deny God the same opportunity and given it doesn't cost anything to have faith, they are not willing to put God to the test, instead choosing to play lotto.

Go figure.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

I lost count of how many times I prayed to God in Jesus' name when I was a child and teenager, pleading with God in Jesus' name to save me from being abused by my adopted mother and adopted older brother (click here). I prayed to God in Jesus' name, pleading with God to save me from being bullied and harassed in school. For me, praying to God was like praying to a brick wall and expecting the wall to answer, because in spite of all the years I prayed to God in Jesus' name, I suffered abuse at home for 13 1/2 years and I was bullied in school for 12 years. I finally came to the realization that God wasn't ever going to save me, so I stopped praying to him for a couple of years. I lost hope in him and I resigned myself to the life I knew I could never escape until I turned 18 years old.

I saved myself shortly after I turned 18 when I physically confronted my abusive older brother and told him that I would call the police on him if he ever laid hands on me again. I'm pleased to say that my forceful confrontation with him also made a lasting impression on my adopted mother, because she never laid a hand on me again either. Neither would stay in the same room with me after that.

I had lost my hope in God, but I had been indoctrinated into believing in him no matter what, so I foolishly became a Christian when I was 17. As the Bible states in Romans 10:9-13 about getting saved, I believed in my heart that God raised Jesus from the dead and I declared him Lord. I still remember the moment I prayed to be saved vividly because I felt absolutely nothing in my heart when I accepted Jesus. I didn't feel the peace, joy, or hope that I was expecting to feel after hearing other Christians talk about how they felt such peace and joy in their hearts when they accepted Jesus as their lord and savior. I wanted that more than anything else in life. These Christians said that their burdens were lifted and they felt hope again. All I felt at the time was the usual pain and sadness.

I can't emphasize just how deeply disappointed I was when I didn't feel my burdens lifted or feel hope in God again. I was completely overwhelmed with sadness and a feeling of hopelessness. I foolishly held on to my Christian faith for the next 30 years while willingly ignoring the nagging reminder in my heart that God didn't save me when I was growing up. I was a very devout Christian because I had been taught that the more devout I was to God, the more likely he was to answer my prayers. The Bible states, "The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective" (James 5:16), and I sincerely believed Jesus' promise, "And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son." "You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it" (John 14:13-14).

I renounced my Christian faith and belief in God about a year and a half ago. It was very difficult for me to let go of my belief in God because I had believed in him all my life and I had been a Christian for 30 years. As far as I'm concerned now, either the Christian God doesn't actually exist and I was a complete fool for believing he did, or the Christian God does exist and he's a malicious and sadistic monster who takes pleasure in watching me and the rest of humanity suffer. I'm an agnostic now, so I could go either way on this.

I don't know whether or not God answered your prayers...possibly in a manner different to what you were expecting?
Having said that, millions of matyers prayed for deliverance I'm sure...but they still suffered horrible torture and died at the hands of evil.
Evil is a witness to the fact there is good and a God.
Maybe your prayer answer is a lifelong one?
Perhaps you should consider the answer is that you have a talent and experience that can be used in the service of others who are being abused?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

I don't know whether or not God answered your prayers...possibly in a manner different to what you were expecting?
Having said that, millions of matyers prayed for deliverance I'm sure...but they still suffered horrible torture and died at the hands of evil.
Evil is a witness to the fact there is good and a God.
Maybe your prayer answer is a lifelong one?
Perhaps you should consider the answer is that you have a talent and experience that can be used in the service of others who are being abused?

IMV, evil is proof of the fact that there is a malicious and sadistic God who allows children to be abused, allows children to be raped by Catholic priests and Southern Baptist pastors, allows millions of martyrs to suffer horrible torture and die in his name, and allows an estimated 11 million people (including an estimated 6 million Jews) to be slaughtered by the Nazis during the Holocaust.

And for the record, I already help and support other adults who survived childhood abuse. I listen to their stories, and I support them if they want to leave Christianity, as I did. I'm also a volunteer child advocate. I'd like to make it perfectly clear that I reject the notion that God has anything to do with me surviving childhood abuse, nor does he have anything to do with me surviving the PTSD that I've suffered for the majority of my life because of the abuse and trauma I suffered while growing up. I saved myself from abuse when I confronted my abusers. I'm surviving the PTSD out of sheer will because my family (my husband and our children) depend on me.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't know whether or not God answered your prayers...possibly in a manner different to what you were expecting?
Having said that, millions of matyers prayed for deliverance I'm sure...but they still suffered horrible torture and died at the hands of evil.
Evil is a witness to the fact there is good and a God.
Maybe your prayer answer is a lifelong one?
Perhaps you should consider the answer is that you have a talent and experience that can be used in the service of others who are being abused?

No, evil is not a witness. People are not perfect and some are incredibly not perfect. In fact the Argument of Evil is one that religions do not seem to have a good answer to. In other words the existence of evil tells us that there probably is no God.

 

[Sheldon]

Despite the unfavourable lotto statistics, I still hear individuals deny God the same opportunity and given it doesn't cost anything to have faith, they are not willing to put God to the test, instead choosing to play lotto.

Go figure.

We know winning the lottery is an objective possibility, that's the difference, you seem be using a variation of the debunked Pascal's wager, not very compelling.

 

[Sheldon]

Evil is a witness to the fact there is good and a God.

Evil is a subjective idea, as is the notion of good, so something of a circular reasoning fallacy there, neither notion evidences any deity, that is just a subjective belief.