Jehovah's Witness=Unbiblical Religion!

[Wildswanderer]

I'm not going to get into translation right now, but remember he did say that God called others god(s), meaning humans Psalm 82. That was part of his defense to the accusation that he was making himself equal to God.

Twisting, twisting, twisting scripture to fit your theology!

 

[YoursTrue]

In Psalm 82 the one who inherits the nations is YHWH. It Psalm 2 it is the Son who inherits the nations.
Those others called gods are not true gods but the Son is truly YHWH.

I do not agree with your interpretation. Was Jesus making himself equal with God? Did Jesus tell his accusers that he was equal to God? No. He did tell them that since God called them gods, and because he was alive before Abraham does not mean he was God or equal to God. But for that he was subjected to be killed for blasphemy.

 

[YoursTrue]

Twisting, twisting, twisting scripture to fit your theology!

Oh? No. I am showing you what it says. Jesus was in heaven alive before he came to the earth. That's part of the whole thing in a nutshell.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh? No. I am showing you what it says. Jesus was in heaven alive before he came to the earth. That's part of the whole thing in a nutshell.

He is. Not was. He is the I AM without beginning or end.

 

[muhammad_isa]

It's hard to tell what you are talking about.

You said: "God offers us eternal life. God can turn our mortality into immortality."

That is what I was replying to.
Basically, you believe in a G-d of your own imagination.
One that rewards people with heaven, but would never allow suffering in a life hereafter, despite allowing the innocent to suffer in this life.

I say that our immaterial soul does not perish after death .. full stop!

 

[Wildswanderer]

I do not agree with your interpretation. Was Jesus making himself equal with God? Did Jesus tell his accusers that he was equal to God? No. He did tell them that since God called them gods, and because he was alive before Abraham does not mean he was God or equal to God. But for that he was subjected to be killed for blasphemy.

Again, how would saying he was older than Abraham be blasphemy? It would not be.

 

[cataway]

I have read the catechism of the Catholic church, and I have read the writings of many protestants, including founders of protestant denominations, and I know a bit about the man who founded the Jehovah's witness denomination as well.

But I can tell you from reading the catechism of the Catholic church, that it has every indication of being more inspired by the Holy Spirit , than any other text I have read, and the Catholic Church knows the scriptures better than any Protestant denomination.

The Bible says "listen to the church." The Bible does not say that everything must be tested by scripture, or that scripture is the final authority, or that God never changes his mind, or that God's word is limited to scripture.

God speaks through the church, and all kinds of people. Every word God speaks through a prophet , is the word of god, and most of the words of Jesus and the prophets, never even got written down.

The Catholic church does not approve of idolatry or pagan worship. Belief that holy souls connected to Jesus christ, ( and we are one body in christ, that we are connected to souls in heaven, and) that they pray for us, bless us, and are concerned about us, is actually biblical.

Even if it wasn't biblical, it is biblical to listen to the church. To believe that everything you believe has to come from the bible, is an unbiblical, man-made, incompatible, incompetent doctrine, that has no support from the scriptures.

People that listen to the Catholic church, are actually doing what Jesus Christ said to do.

Jesus said listen to the church, and "if they do not listen to the church, let them be to you as a pagan or a tax collector".

Jesus never said anything about reading the Bible. Jesus Christ left the early Christians with a church , not a bible.

The Catholic Church knows the Bible inside and out, far better than any Protestant denomination.

If you attend the Catholic mass every single day, (btw, the Catholic mass is celebrated every day), you will hear almost the entire scriptures read to you repeatedly.

Almost the entire catechism, the official teachings of the church, and the magisterium, are based off the scriptures.

When I converted to the Catholic church at age 21, I was encouraged to read the Bible all the time. The Catholic Church repeatedly encourages Catholics to read the scriptures. The Bible is a Catholic book!

Saint Jerome is one of the most important doctors of the Catholic church, one of the most important saints of the Catholic church, and fathers of the Catholic Church, and Saint Jerome says that "ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ. "

The Catholic Church teaches that ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ. Your accusation that the Catholic Church wants people to be ignorant of scriptures, is completely false!

you may not realize i happen to know many that were Catholic that are now JW .they had looked deeper into the Catholic church after studying the bible . is something the church does not like .
you spoke of the man who founded the Jehovah's witness denomination .not many of the JW's couldpick him out of a lineup . he is rarely even mentioned .

 

[YoursTrue]

Finally, you said something that I agree with. Jesus said of people, "know you not, that you are gods".

He did not make himself God or equal to God. Notice Psalm 2:8 -
"Ask of me, and I will give you the nations as your inheritance, the ends of the earth as your possession." God gave him the inheritance of the earth. What a wonderful statement recorded for us.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, how would saying he was older than Abraham be blasphemy? It would not be.

That is correct. But his opposers thought so.

 

[Spiderman]

I seriously doubt that. How many Catholics actually read the Bible themselves?

I spent time at monasteries where you spend hours every day doing lectio Divina, communion with God through his word, as part of the Carmelite rule of life, hours spent in a cell every day studying Scripture, and the Old Testament, Gospels, and new testament, is read at daily Mass. I got drenched in so much Scripture when I converted to Catholicism, I overdosed on it, and went nuts!

 

[Spiderman]

you may not realize i happen to know many that were Catholic that are now JW .they had looked deeper into the Catholic church after studying the bible . is something the church does not like .
you spoke of the man who founded the Jehovah's witness denomination .not many of the JW's couldpick him out of a lineup . he is rarely even mentioned .

A lot of Jehovah's witnesses convert to Catholicism too!

 

[Wildswanderer]

I spent time at monasteries where you spend hours every day doing lectio Divina, communion with God through his word, as part of the Carmelite rule of life, hours spent in a cell every day studying Scripture, and the Old Testament, Gospels, and new testament, is read at daily Mass. I got drenched in so much Scripture when I converted to Catholicism, I overdosed on it, and went nuts!

But does the average Catholic have to do all that? I have a Catholic friend and she admits not knowing scripture very well.

 

[Brian2]

He’s wrong. I just gave you one, McKenzie was highly acclaimed. If you noticed, his tome “Dictionary of the Bible” had the stamp of Catholic approval, the imprimatur & the nihil obstat.

And here is another….
In his article “Qualitative Anarthrous Predicate Nouns: Mark 15:39 and John 1:1,” Philip B. Harner said that such clauses as the one in John 1:1, “with an anarthrous predicate preceding the verb, are primarily qualitative in meaning. They indicate that the logos has the nature of theos.” He suggests: “Perhaps the clause could be translated, ‘the Word had the same nature as God.’” (Journal of Biblical Literature, 1973, pp. 85, 87) Thus, in this text, the fact that the word the·osʹ in its second occurrence is without the definite article (ho) and is placed before the verb in the sentence in Greek is significant. Interestingly, translators that insist on rendering John 1:1, “The Word was God,” do not hesitate to use the indefinite article (a, an) in their rendering of other passages where a singular anarthrous predicate noun occurs before the verb. Thus at John 6:70, The Jerusalem Bible and King James both refer to Judas Iscariot as “a devil,” and at John 9:17 they describe Jesus as “a prophet.”

Now be honest, which wording agrees with the context? That Jesus is “with God”, and he ‘is God’?

Or that Jesus is “with God and he “is a divine being?”
Especially in context with verse 18, “No one has ever seen God”?

Again, context. I know which makes sense..

Maybe it should be translated "the Word was with the God and the Word was God". John 1:1-3 seems to be saying something similar to Col 1:15-20 and Heb 1:1-4.
He is exactly like God in all ways and has the nature of God and created all things. (meaning He was not created.)
(You can bring up "firstborn" or "of creation" in Col 1:15 but the WT is dishonest about the meaning of "firstborn" since Jesus was "appointed" to be firstborn -Psalm 89:27- and because the uncreated Son of God stepped into the creation when He became a man.)

At Jesus’ Sanhedrin trial before his murder, the leaders were looking for any kind of evidence to bring against him, but never once did they accuse him of claiming he said he was God!!

That tells any thinking person, that Jesus didn’t say that, in the way many are taught!.

Mark 14:61 But he remained silent and made no answer. Again the high priest asked him, “Are you the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?” 62 And Jesus said, “I am, and you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power, and coming with the clouds of heaven.” 63 And the high priest tore his garments and said, “What further witnesses do we need? 64 You have heard his blasphemy. What is your decision?” And they all condemned him as deserving death.

I am told that this blasphemy means He was claiming to be God or equal to God. That is what being the Son of God means. The Church in the first century accepted Jesus status and those who remained Jews did not. They stumbled over Jesus.(1Peter 2:8) and that stone of stumbling and rock of offense is actually YHWH (Isa 8:14) and that is why they stumbled, they could not accept that.
And when we get down to people seeing God we can see in the OT that people have seen YHWH (eg Ex 24:11 etc etc) The question should be whom they saw.
It was YHWH but was not the Father.

There are too many Scriptures that show Jesus’ subservience to his God….my God, his Father Jehovah.

You do realise that a good son submits to his father I suppose.
You do realise that a man has a God and serves that God.
How is it that you even consider using subservience as part of your argument?
I guess it is because the reasoning of the WT is not good and you follow what they say.

 

[Wildswanderer]

A lot of Jehovah's witnesses convert to Catholicism too!

And a lot of Catholics to protestant and so on.

 

[Brian2]

You said: "God offers us eternal life. God can turn our mortality into immortality."

That is what I was replying to.
Basically, you believe in a G-d of your own imagination.
One that rewards people with heaven, but would never allow suffering in a life hereafter, despite allowing the innocent to suffer in this life.

I say that our immaterial soul does not perish after death .. full stop!

OK that's fine, a lot of people believe that.
But I do not say that those who perish do not suffer.

 

[Brian2]

I do not agree with your interpretation. Was Jesus making himself equal with God? Did Jesus tell his accusers that he was equal to God? No. He did tell them that since God called them gods, and because he was alive before Abraham does not mean he was God or equal to God. But for that he was subjected to be killed for blasphemy.

Jesus told them He was equal to God and they understood Him.
They did not want to kill Him for claiming to be alive before Abraham was, there was no blasphemy in that. You know why they saw Him as blaspheming at that place, but you want to say it is because He claimed to be alive before Abraham was. It's a case of the WT mistranslating the scriptures again.

 

[Spiderman]

But does the average Catholic have to do all that? I have a Catholic friend and she admits not knowing scripture very well.

As a Catholic, I was always taught what the Saints said, "ignorance of scripture is ignorance of christ!"

Catholics that don't know their Scripture, are not faithful to their duties as Catholics. There are many of such Catholics.

 

[cataway]

A lot of Jehovah's witnesses convert to Catholicism too!

LOL . that number would be counted with the fingers on one hand

 

[Spiderman]

LOL . that number would be counted with the fingers on one hand

I have met some personally actually. They give talks on "coming home" network.

I know a Lady named Janet Rose from Kalispell Montana, raised by staunch Jehovah's witness Father, I'm assuming her mother was too, the Bible lead her into the Catholic Church, she is charismatic, prays in tongues, dreams, has visions. She taught me how to talk with Jehovah's witnesses, they believe Michael the Archangel is Jesus, and Jesus didn't call God Jehovah! She said, whenever a Jehovah's witness says Catholics follow a different Gospel, tell them "you changed the Bible, invented your own new Bible, so back at ya!"

 

[Spiderman]

@cataway
More people convert to Catholicism every year than Jehovah's witnesses, or any other Christian denomination by far!

Many people can see clearly that the Catholic Church is the only Church to date back to Christ, and was founded by Christ.

Jehovah's witness Denomination was founded, invented by a man.

Jesus said, " unless you eat the flesh and drink the blood of the son of man you have no life in you. " He lost many followers over that teaching. He didn't call them back. People that rejected that teaching are like Jehovah's witnesses!

At every last supper account, he said "this is my body, this is my blood". That is not the language of symbolism.

Jehovah's witnesses changed his words to suit their agenda. They follow a different Gospel.

Paul in Scripture said that people eating the consecrated bread and wine, without discerning the body and blood of Christ, eat and drink condemnation on themselves.

Paul said receiving the body and blood of Christ unworthily, was causing people to be sick and die. If it was just blessed bread, symbolic bread, people would not die receiving it unworthily.

Jesus taught very severely, with grave extreme warning, as did Paul, about the importance of that sacred sacrament, that Jehovah's witnesses reject. If I was the Devil , I would want Jehovah's witnesses to lead people astray, and away from that sacrament!

Early Christians believed what the Catholic Church believes about the sacraments.

Jesus even gave the Apostles the ability to forgive sins like Catholic priests do.

The Catholic Church is more Biblical than Jehovah's witnesses. It's one reason Jehovah's witnesses are a tiny little denomination, despite them going door to door to push their man made Religion.

Catholics don't need to go door to door, and the holy spirit leads more people into that Church founded by Christ, than 30,000 Protestant denominations combined! That speaks volumes!

Jehovah's witnesses are man made an unbiblical Religion. Catholic Church was founded by Christ!