Baha'i and Messengers

[Truthseeker]

Millions believe it. You are smarter than any of them?
I asked a Mormon why he believed it.
He said God told him its true.

The faith is demonstrably very beneficial.

Everyone figures they lucked into the one true faith.

The Mormon faith is beneficial. It advocates good deeds. That's because at it's base the ethics and morals are based upon what Christ said. Some stuff that Smith taught is false but since there are good morals and family values in it, the Mormon faith has grown.

No one should go with a faith only through a voice in their head that they think is God. I don't know if that is true of this person, but from your description that might be the case. Baha'u'llah said:

They should in no wise allow their fancy to obscure their judgment, neither should they regard their own imaginings as the voice of the Eternal
(Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh)
www.bahai.org/r/569856918

Also, there is no one true faith. Baha'i is not the one true faith.

 

[Vinayaka]

It benefits others also. The proof actually of being spiritual is through our deeds. I wish I was doing better with that.

Then why aren't you? In the words of wiser men than me ... "Well, ... do something!"

 

[Audie]

The Mormon faith is beneficial. It advocates good deeds. That's because at it's base the ethics and morals are based upon what Christ said. Some stuff that Smith taught is false but since there are good morals and family values in it, the Mormon faith has grown.

No one should go with a faith only through a voice in their head that they think is God. I don't know if that is true of this person, but from your description that might be the case. Baha'u'llah said:

They should in no wise allow their fancy to obscure their judgment, neither should they regard their own imaginings as the voice of the Eternal
(Gleanings from the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh)
www.bahai.org/r/569856918

Also, there is no one true faith. Baha'i is not the one true faith.

Mr. B' s imaginings of course being a exception.

As for "Christian" values, you dont own
them and didnt originate them.

Those are traditional human values around the world.
We are not taught them as " religion" but just
the right way to live.
Imagine our surprise when Christians showed
up and claimed it was their stuff!

 

[Audie]

Then why aren't you? In the words of wiser men than me ... "Well, ... do something!"

And getting the subjunctive right!

 

[Audie]

I agree. I think most of the stories in the Bible could very easily be made up, similar to how Joseph Smith, I believe, made up the Book of Mormon. However, the other important point is, that even though the Book of Mormon is fiction, and maybe the Bible too, they still get people to believe in those fictional stories as if they were true... And by believing in them they can become better more spiritual people.

More spiritual?

 

[ppp]

That first statement is not always true.

It doesn't have to be. It only has to be sometimes true.

Plus, merely because individuals have had their various understandings and misunderstandings of religious or philosophical claims doesn’t at all reflect on God Himself.

Every religionist says that about every other religionist's "understanding" of God. The thing is that none of you can demonstrate that your supposed understanding has anything to with God. Until one of you can, you are indistinguishable from one another in any meaningful way.

You cannot all be right, but you can all be wrong.

 

[Truthseeker]

Do Baha'is believe that God created a one-celled animal and let it slowly evolve into all the different animals we have today?

Personally I don't think God created a one-celled animal, but others will differ on this. I believe God created a universe that made inevitable the forming of a one-celled animal. There are statements by 'Abdu'l-Baha that some Baha'is still believe today that it means that man had a "parallel" evolution distinct from other animals, but what 'Abdu'l-Baha said was subtle and the preface to the new translation to Some Answered Questions and a follow up up question to the Universal House of Justice makes clear that the evidence from genetics today makes that interpretation impossible. I know about that evidence, and agree with that.

 

[Audie]

I'm not sure if you're say I'm the foolish one here, but just in case... The question was for the Baha'is. What is their belief about evolution that they think it is "fact."?
For a religion that believes in a creator, that is a little strange. Since God had to create something that was alive, why not create them in their final form? Do Baha'is believe that God created a one-celled animal and let it slowly evolve into all the different animals we have today?

If you dismiss evolution as false despite knowing nothing about it, well, you say how clever that is.

 

[Audie]

Personally I don't think God created a one-celled animal, but others will differ on this. I believe God created a universe that made inevitable the forming of a one-celled animal. There are statements by 'Abdu'l-Baha that some Baha'is still believe today that it means that man had a "parallel" evolution distinct from other animals, but what 'Abdu'l-Baha said was subtle and the preface to the new translation to Some Answered Questions and a follow up up question to the Universal House of Justice makes clear that the evidence from genetics today makes that interpretation impossible. I know about that evidence, and agree with that.

Only those who know nothing about evolution think "single cell" would be the statt.

The parallel thing is 100% unevidenced fantasy.

 

[CG Didymus]

We can find that guidance in past scriptures

I would have thought fulfillment of the prophecies of the past religions would be an easy thing to show and prove. But it isn't. They are too vague to prove anything.

 

[Truthseeker]

However, the other important point is, that even though the Book of Mormon is fiction, and maybe the Bible too, they still get people to believe in those fictional stories as if they were true... And by believing in them they can become better more spiritual people.

Not so much by believing in some of the false things that Smith said. Smith did repeat morals from the Bible that were good, and by practicing those Mormons have made a good contribution in some ways. For instance some Protestants believe all you need is faith alone to be saved, and Mormon says you also need deeds. Mormons have tried to live good deeds derived from what Christ said.

 

[Truthseeker]

Mr. B' s imaginings of course being a exception.

As for "Christian" values, you dont own
them and didnt originate them.

Those are traditional human values around the world.
We are not taught them as " religion" but just
the right way to live.
Imagine our surprise when Christians showed
up and claimed it was their stuff!

We have the belief that through virtues advocated by religion that helped create a world with better morals for everyone, and for atheists, also. Not that atheists wouldn't have any good morals without the influence of religious teachings, but the religious teachings have helped engender that. I recognize also that atheists can have good morals and religionists can have bad morals.

I don't understand why you think we teach we originated good values or teachings. I'm puzzled.

 

[CG Didymus]

You get to decide. I personally see the Bible is a sure spiritual guide. It is not a history book, it is not a scientific disclosure, it is for spiritual growth.

Regards Tony

Yeah, I know. I think it was meant to be believed by the Jews that it was history. Their history.

 

[CG Didymus]

That can be a conclusion we reach after studying the evidence of that Claim.

Regards Tony

Yeah, the evidence, his person, his mission and his writings? What else?

 

[Truthseeker]

Only those who know nothing about evolution think "single cell" would be the statt.

The parallel thing is 100% unevidenced fantasy.

Are you being purposefully contrary and disagreeable on this? I do know something about evolution, and if a single cell is not the start inform me about it! It's not the point of what I was saying anyway. What's the second sentence about? I was not saying there is parallel evolution of man.

 

[CG Didymus]

Not so much by believing in some of the false things that Smith said. Smith did repeat morals from the Bible that were good, and by practicing those Mormons have made a good contribution in some ways. For instance some Protestants believe all you need is faith alone to be saved, and Mormon says you also need deeds. Mormons have tried to live good deeds derived from what Christ said.

Yes, so what's more important a fictional story that gets people to live a good, spiritual life, or the Truth that people argue about it being the real Truth, and not living it? And I think that's a bigger problem for religions that are told to go out and teach the word. Their deeds aren't necessarily going to match their words. And then what happens? They lose credibility. Isn't there a Baha'i quote about letting deeds not words be your adorning? Tough to do.

 

[CG Didymus]

Are you being purposefully contrary and disagreeable on this? I do know something about evolution, and if a single cell is not the start inform me about it! It's not the point of what I was saying anyway. What's the second sentence about? I was not saying there is parallel evolution of man.

I thought she was talking to me. And she's right, I don't know much about the theory of evolution but wanted to hear more about the Baha'is beliefs about it. The main question being... If God had to create the Earth and the Sun and everything else, what was the point of making all the animals have to evolve... why not just make them in their final form? But then, is it their final form? Will someday some weird animal pop out of another animal and start a new species?

 

[CG Didymus]

Then why aren't you? In the words of wiser men than me ... "Well, ... do something!"

Ah yes, the greatest deed? Of course, spreading the word. Then in the fine print it says, "With humility and kindness. With respect and love." But who reads the fine print?

 

[Truthseeker]

I thought she was talking to me. And she's right, I don't know much about the theory of evolution but wanted to hear more about the Baha'is beliefs about it. The main question being... If God had to create the Earth and the Sun and everything else, what was the point of making all the animals have to evolve... why not just make them in their final form? But then, is it their final form? Will someday some weird animal pop out of another animal and start a new species?

I didn't think about it, but maybe she was talking about what you said instead of what I said when she said those things?

Evolution is always continuing.

 

[CG Didymus]

More spiritual?

Yeah, yeah to them they are becoming more spiritual. Which means they pray to their God and believes he hears them. And they give money to their congregation. They try and be nice and helpful to others. And why? Because they believe their book is the truth. And it tells them how they should act. And maybe on the inside they are actually feeling like they are becoming closer to their God. The God that is fictional. They certainly can feel more spiritual. Is it real? Not necessarily, but they believe it is. Is it similar to what others feel in the other religions? I think it probably is. Do they all have Scriptural proof that their beliefs are real? I'm sure they believe they do. And when their beliefs contradict the beliefs of some other person in a different religion? Of course, the other person is wrong.