Good, we have a real geography with a real river, the Jordan.
Next step. Was there a Baptist?
Indeed there was, only his actions were certainly all about cutting off funds to the Temple....thousands wentto him for cleansing for nothing, thus saving their hard earned money.
Josephus writes about the Baptist and he was no Christian. Come to think of it Celcus might have as well, I'll need to check that out.
So Mark's reports about the Baptist were true.
One step at a time.
Yes and in Hindu scripture there is a real Prince. In Greek mythology there are many historical people as well.
Plutarch’s
Life of Romulus. Has a large amount of ancient biography, even of real people, but was composed of myth and fiction,
You don't get to judge what is debatable, Joel, this is a debating thread.
Mark's deposition is very straightforward once the additions and edits have been sorted
Then you don't understand what mythic writing contains. Mark does indeed cover all the basics for fiction.
No sources - fails to show any substantive content of being actual researched histories. Nowhere in the Gospels do they ever name their sources of information, nor do they read as eye witness testimonies (nor do they identify themselves as such), nor is it mentioned why any sources used would be accurate to rely upon.
They never express amazement or any degree of rational skepticism no matter how implausible an event within the story may be — something we would expect from any rational historian (even one living in antiquity).
During this time all students of literary Greek (the authors of the Gospels wrote their manuscripts in literary Greek), commonly used this fictional biographical technique as a popular rhetorical device — where they were taught to invent narratives about famous and legendary people, as well as to build a symbolic or moral message within it
There are copied narratives:
Mark 15.24: “They part his garments among them, casting lots upon them.”
Psalm 22:18: “They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon them.”
Mark 15.29-31: “And those who passed by blasphemed him, shaking their heads and saying, ‘…Save yourself…’ and mocked him, saying ‘He who saved others cannot save himself!’ ”
Psalm 22.7-8: “All those who see me mock me and give me lip, shaking their head, saying ‘He expected the lord to protect him, so let the lord save him if he likes.’ ”
Mark 15.34: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Psalm 22.1: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
On top of these links, Mark also appears to have used
Psalm 69,
Amos 8.9, and some elements of
Isaiah 53,
Zechariah 9-14, and
Wisdom 2 as sources for his narratives. So we can see yet a few more elements of myth in the latter part of this Gospel, with Mark using other scriptural sources as needed for his story, whether to “fulfill” what he believed to be prophecy or for some other reason.
In
Mark 5.22-43 he rewrites Elisha in
2 Kings 4.17-37.
Mark uses ring composition, another common literary device popular at the time (used in myth as well as in history). In the central part of Mark’s narrative (revolving around Jesus’ travel by sea), Mark carefully crafted nested cycles of themes specifically to convey an underlying message about faith and one’s ability (or lack thereof) to understand the gospel.
Phase 2 (4.35-41) — Eventful crossing of the sea
Phase 3 (5.1-20) — Landing with healings/exorcisms
Interval 1: Step 1 (5.21-43) — First stop (after an uneventful boating)
Step 2 (6.1-6) — Second stop
Step 3 (6.6-29) — Going around
Cycle 2:
Phase 1 (6.30-44) — Jesus with crowds by the sea (with an uneventful boating)
Phase 2 (6.45-52) — Eventful crossing of the sea
Phase 3 (6.53-55) — Landing with healings/exorcisms
Interval 2: Step 1 (6.56-7.23) — Going around
Step 2 (7.24-30) — First stop
Step 3 (7.31-37) — Second stop
Cycle 3:
Phase 1 (8.1-12) — Jesus with crowds by the sea (with an uneventful boating)
Phase 2 (8.13-21) — Eventful crossing of the sea
Phase 3 (8.22-26) — Landing with healings/exorcisms
three triadically composed intervals, each of which contains one triadically composite minimal unit. Furthermore, every “Phase 1” in all cycles, takes place during the day and describes Jesus’ actions with crowds on one side of the sea. Every “Phase 2” occurs on the evening of that same day (though not stated explicitly in Cycle 3’s “Phase 2”, it is implied by what would have been a long sea crossing), and also describes actions between Jesus and the twelve disciples in the boat while in transit across the sea. Each “Phase 3” represents Jesus’ healing (and/or exorcising) of people who either come to him or that are brought to him following his arrival on the other side of the sea. Then there are other healings or exorcisms that are interspersed among the intervals that follow each “Phase 3”. Each cycle of this triad occupies one day, so the whole ring structure represents three days, ending with a resolution on the third day — all of which concludes by transitioning into a debate regarding who Jesus really is and what the gospel really is (
Mark 8.27-9.1, which is the first time we hear Jesus speak about any of this himself).
Adding to this already brilliant triadic ring structure is another one interwoven within it: two matching sequences of five miracles each, interspersed with parables, preaching, and some general references to miracles. All of the narrated miracles in the triad form a well crafted sequential structure:
1st Sequence:
“Mastery of the Waters” (Stilling of the Storm) 4.35-41
“Exorcism of a Gentile Man” (The Gerasene Demoniac) 5.1-20
“Curing an Older Woman” (The Woman with a Hemorrhage) 5.25-34
“Curing of a Younger Woman” (Jairus’ Daughter) 5.21-23, 35-43
“Miraculous Feeding” (Feeding of the 5,000) 6.34-44, 53
2nd Sequence:
“Mastery of the Waters” (Jesus Walks on the Sea) 6.45-51
“Exorcism of a Gentile Woman” (The Syrophoenician Woman) 7.24-30
“Curing of a Deaf Man with Spit” (The Deaf Mute) 7.32-37
“Miraculous Feeding” (Feeding of the 4,000) 8.1-10
“Curing a Blind Man with Spit” (The Blind Man of Bethsaida) 8.22-26
It should be noted that many miracle narratives of Jewish holy men, including Moses, exhibit a sequence of five miracles, and in fact the two sequences that Mark uses have notable correlations with the wilderness narrative of Moses (
Exodus 13-17), thus suggesting another likely source that Mark used for his miracle sequences.
There are many more literary constructs, a Chiasmus that was definitely crafted to be a story nestled into another story. There are many many more examples.
The improbable events, fisherman dropping their families to follow Jesus and so on, all markers of myth. There is no doubt this is mythmaking.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
- out of office 