What is God?

[URAVIP2ME]

I apologize if I was unclear ─ by 'objective existence' I meant existing in the world external to the self, which we perceive with our senses ─ 'nature' is another name for it.
If God is real then God is real in that sense, since that's what 'real' means.

You were Not unclear, but I took the liberty as to objective as to also be God's objective existence for our benefit.
To me ' perceive with our senses ' includes our minds, processing with our minds and brains.
To me, nature is in harmony with God's objective for Earth, for nature.
We see nature, we hear nature, we smell nature's food/flowers, we can taste what nature produces (yum honey).
Honey reminds me that Scripture speaks of a land flowing with milk and honey.
Also, back in ancient Israel there were lots of forests .
( and 'flowing with milk and honey' would indicate a large bee population and livestock. )
Isaiah 30:23 speaks of a coming 'day' that our livestock will feed in large pastures. ( love those dairy products )
And that we will even dwell in safety, even safely sleeping out in the woods /forests - Ezekiel 34:25
Yes, the Bible's God is external to self, but we can perceive Him with our senses / nature.

 

[blü 2]

To me ' perceive with our senses ' includes our minds, processing with our minds and brains.

Our senses are our connection with objective reality. And so far they don't report any supernatural beings there. Which is one of the reasons I'd say means that supernatural beings exist only as concepts we develop and things we imagine, not as anything with objective existence.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Jesus does Not come back, so to speak, until the last days of badness on Earth is completed - 2 Timothy 3:1-5,13.

That is not good. Jesus' coming back will erase badness, but he does not come now. Why? Why does he not want to come back now or why he has not made a second visit till now so that the badness could be ended? God / Jesus can erase badness with a flick of the eye, but they will not do it and let people suffer for thousands of years more. I fail to see what is good in this.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Your "real God" would be no God at all. It would be just a part of (material) nature.

That should not disqualify Them because They were part of the material nature in the beginning. It’s only after some philosophers with too much time on their hands that Gods became more than what They were.

 

[Sheldon]

After a rain look for a rainbow. A rainbow because a rainbow is God's promise to never flood Earth again - Genesis 9:13-17

Rainbow's are caused by the prismatic effect of water on light, nothing supernatural is needed to explain it.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

To people who think love is a real thing, then as 1 John 4:16 says that God "IS" love.
Love to me is a concept because of the Bible's concept or definition of love is found at 1 Corinthians 13:4-6.
To me, Jesus is a real suspect because through Jesus' teachings one can determine whether there is a God or not.

Then Jesus isn’t one because he never loves Satan.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

When we see a cabin out in a secluded woods we know someone built it.

But the fact you contrast it with nature reveals you know nature isn’t designed or you wouldn’t be able to tell the difference.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

There are MANY gods and MANY lords but to a Christian there is only one God.
Some people look in their mirror and see their 'god'.

Didn’t realize Jesus had a mirror lol.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

After a rain look for a rainbow. A rainbow because a rainbow is God's promise to never flood Earth again - Genesis 9:13-17

And the Smoky Mountains are proof Vulture existed.

 

[Sheldon]

When we see a cabin out in a secluded woods we know someone built it.
So to me, we can conclude the same thing about the orderly universe.

We know cabins don't occur naturally, we can demsonrate objective evidence they are designed and built. Our conclusion it has been built has nothing to do with complexity or order, so your conclusion about the universe is a very bad analogy, and we only have one universe to observe, so that's not much of a test group on which to base assumptions about how ordered it is.

If you had never seen a cabin, or designs for a cabin, or anyone build a cabin, you might not necessarily leap to the conclusion it was built. Your using a version of Paley's watchmaker fallacy, it has been widely debunked.

 

[PearlSeeker]

That should not disqualify Them because They were part of the material nature in the beginning. It’s only after some philosophers with too much time on their hands that Gods became more than what They were.

First explanations of the world were myths. Philosophers started to seek other - rational explanations. Reason itself questions what is the first/underlying principle (arche)...

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Our senses are our connection with objective reality. And so far they don't report any supernatural beings there. Which is one of the reasons I'd say means that supernatural beings exist only as concepts we develop and things we imagine, not as anything with objective existence.

Well, you are certainly not alone in your thinking.
Science nor nature is Not the teacher of morality, but we do find that we are made to image attributes.
Of course, I am Not speaking of being a replica of God since we're made from tangible earthly elements.
Humans can have or develop human qualities that shed light on moral attributes.
Moral attributes or qualities can have thinking abilities, kindness, practical wisdom and a sense of justice and love.
Those human abilities shows each of us has a unique personality and are Not motivated by an impersonal force.
Rather, motivated as by a loving fatherly figure so that we can cultivate the qualities found at Galatians 5:22-23.
Humans benefit by recognizing such a father figure who wants the best for his children - Isaiah 64:8.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

We know cabins don't occur naturally, we can demsonrate objective evidence they are designed and built. Our conclusion it has been built has nothing to do with complexity or order, so your conclusion about the universe is a very bad analogy, and we only have one universe to observe, so that's not much of a test group on which to base assumptions about how ordered it is.
If you had never seen a cabin, or designs for a cabin, or anyone build a cabin, you might not necessarily leap to the conclusion it was built. Your using a version of Paley's watchmaker fallacy, it has been widely debunked.

Yes, if one had never seen a watch, or designs for a watch, or anyone build a watch, you might not necessarily leap to the conclusion a watch was built / manufactured.
However, I would think people we know would know what a cabin is, what a watch is.
A cabin would meet the requirements in order to be a cabin, and so would a watch.
What set the Big Bang in motion _________ I suppose you would say an impersonal force.
Simply, the Bible explains that when God sends forth His spirit things are created.
God has both Power and Strength so God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy to created the material realm.

Watches tell time and Man has his doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock set close to striking the dark midnight hour.
It is Man's system which is more and more is fighting against itself - tick tock close to midnight.
Man's rulership is bringing down the final curtain on himself that is why calamity forms these last days of badness on Earth before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the one to usher in Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Then Jesus isn’t one because he never loves Satan.

Sure, Jesus loved Satan - Luke chapter 4.
Jesus taught to love your enemies.
God sent His Son from Heaven to Earth for us. Jesus did Not send himself. God did Not send Himself.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Rainbow's are caused by the prismatic effect of water on light, nothing supernatural is needed to explain it.

The point the Bible is making is that when we see a rainbow that is a reminder of God's promise that there will never be a deluge again - Genesis chapter 9.

Since ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the Earth of the wicked, I suppose one could say that is going to be supernatural - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15; Psalms 92:7; Psalms 104:35; Proverbs 2:21-22.

 

[Sheldon]

Yes, if one had never seen a watch, or designs for a watch, or anyone build a watch, you might not necessarily leap to the conclusion a watch was built / manufactured.
However, I would think people we know would know what a cabin is, what a watch is.

That is precisely the point, Paley picked a watch, and you a cabin, precisely because we already know they are designed. That's why the analogies fail, do you know where we never see watches or cabins or any designed things occur, in nature. You and Paley even miss that you're making that comparison, a watch on a beach so out of place one "just knows it is designed" a cabin in the woods the same, but the beach and the woods are also designed in your beliefs, so why are they out of place enough for us to suddenly assume design? Oh it's complexity or order, but the ****ing sand is designed? Such arguments make no rational sense, and as I said they've been widely debunked. Yet you have used a version here.

A cabin would meet the requirements in order to be a cabin, and so would a watch.

Also the sky is blue and water is wet????

What set the Big Bang in motion _________ I suppose you would say an impersonal force.

Well you suppose wrong, I would say nothing as a) I'm not a theoretical physicist, and b) I try not to make unevidenced assumptions.

Simply, the Bible explains that when God sends forth His spirit things are created.

The bible claims, the claims in its creation myth have no explanatory powers whatsoever, in stark contrast with scientific theories, which both evidence and explain broad naturally occurring phenomena.

God has both Power and Strength so God supplied the abundantly needed dynamic energy to created the material realm.

That's called a begging the question fallacy, I've linked an explanation of it for you. Of course it is irrational by definition.

Watches tell time and Man has his doom-and-gloom Doom's Day Clock set close to striking the dark midnight hour.

I have no idea what that means sorry?

It is Man's system which is more and more is fighting against itself - tick tock close to midnight.

Again I have no idea what that means, or its relevance here?

Man's rulership is bringing down the final curtain on himself that is why calamity forms these last days of badness on Earth before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will be the one to usher in Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.

Again what's your point beyond making an unevidenced assumption here?

 

[Sheldon]

Rainbow's are caused by the prismatic effect of water on light, nothing supernatural is needed to explain it.

The point the Bible is making is that when we see a rainbow that is a reminder of God's promise that there will never be a deluge again - Genesis chapter 9.

A more credible explanation is that the people who wrote that didn't understand about the prismatic effects of water. It fits the evidence, and doesn't offend reason or Occam's razor.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

That is not good. Jesus' coming back will erase badness, but he does not come now. Why? Why does he not want to come back now or why he has not made a second visit till now so that the badness could be ended? God / Jesus can erase badness with a flick of the eye, but they will not do it and let people suffer for thousands of years more. I fail to see what is good in this.

'Why' is because the passing of time was needed for us to be born, and the good news of God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44) would first be declared on an international scale as it is Now done as mentioned at Matthew 24:14; Acts 1:8
So, we are Not speaking of thousands of year more.
The ' final signal ', so to speak, is now close at hand and is the event mentioned at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
They, the powers in charge, will be saying, " Peace and Security..." but that saying will Not prove to be peaceful because that saying is the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14,9 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace, will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
Not just Peace on Earth but Jesus will bring 'healing' to earth's nations as mentioned at Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 33:24

 

[blü 2]

Well, you are certainly not alone in your thinking.
Science nor nature is Not the teacher of morality

We get part of our morality from our evolution as gregarious primates ─ like of child protection and nurture, dislike of the one who harms, like of fairness and reciprocity, respect for authority, loyalty to the group and a sense of self-worth through self-denial. Evolution also adds our conscience and our capacity for empathy. The rest of our morality ─ the correct ways of acting towards other people depending on their sex, age, relationship, authority, and so on ─ we get from our upbringing, culture, education and experience.

These bases of morality are found in all peoples regardless of their views regarding religion.

Those human abilities shows each of us has a unique personality and are Not motivated by an impersonal force.

See above.

 

[alypius]

But other things can be purely conceptual / imaginary ─ have no real referent ─ like 'two', 'divinity', 'jurisprudence', 'astronomy', 'Superman', 'unicorns' and, so far, it appears, 'God'. So Sherlock Holmes 'exists' without being real, simply as an imaginary being.

Does the concept of two or unicorn exist?