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Why did God create homosexuality?

joelr

Well-Known Member
The Bible is not a fairy tale. "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully competent, completely equipped for every good work.” (2Timothy 3:16-17)


Not a fairy tale, a myth.
For teaching? What does it say about going to war with other cities? Or about non-Hebrew slaves? What punishment does it say for cursing? (Anyone who blasphemes or curses shall be stoned to death by the entire community. 24:16). Guess you pick and choose what to teach?

God's Son, Jesus Christ, constantly referred to the Hebrew Scriptures to support his teaching. In fact, during the course of Jesus' ministry, he is known to have referred to or expressed thoughts that parallel passages from about half of the books of the Hebrew Scriptures and yes, that includes the book of Genesis. (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5) (Genesis 7:1-24; Luke 17:26-27)

How does the NT referencing a bunch of laws and myths demonstrate anything? The Israelite laws were very similar to other cities, Canaanites and so on. Assyriologist John Bowden points out in his work that Deuteronic laws from scripture mirror laws from other cultures of the time.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
But, i do not excuse or forgive homosexuals for their sin, and i especially do not embrace it
Seems like you skipped the verse where Jesus said you will be judged as you judge others. How are you different from the slave whose debt was forgiven and yet he wouldn’t forgive someone else?
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
(All below is my opinion.)

What does this mean? The passage you cited is about people who don't marry.

"The disciples said to him [Jesus], 'If this is the case of a man with his wife, it would be better not to marry!' But he said to them, 'Not everyone can accept this saying but those to whom it has been given. For there are eunuchs who were born as such from their mother’s womb, and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by people, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. The one who is able to accept this, let him accept it.'"

He is encouraging those who are able to accept non-marriage, which St. Paul the Apostle also did, and many Saints also did after them saying in essence "if you can take it do it, for it is a more blessed life."

For in other words He is saying: "there are those born unable to marry, there are those who have been made unable to marry by people, and there are those who have made themselves unable to marry for the sake of the kingdom. Whoever can accept this let him accept it."

(All above is my opinion.)
He is specifically telling you to accept that some men don’t have balls. That is what a eunuch is.
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
  • Bele : It is obvious to the most simpleminded that Lokai is of an inferior breed.

    Mr. Spock : The obvious visual evidence, Commissioner, is that he is of the same breed as yourself.

    Bele : Are you blind, Commander Spock? Well, look at me. Look at me!

    Captain James T. Kirk : You are black on one side and white on the other.

    Bele : I am black on the right side!

    Captain James T. Kirk : I fail to see the significant difference.

    Bele : Lokai is white on the right side. All of his people are white on the right side.
A very memorable episode and it really impacted me when I first saw it as a child!
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Christian scholarship knows the gospels are anonymous and the names were added 2nd century. There is no question of this.

Do you blindly follow scholarship?
Individual Investigation has so much more value than Institutional Indoctrination.

The writer of G-Mark was a partial witness and his deposition includes the memoirs of Cephas who also wrote about his greatest moments himself, in letters.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
I have given you the answer as to how it is different I believe three or so times. Is there a failure to communicate the meaning of terms? For I have said "the nature of the act differs," or "the moral object differs" I think. That is the whole and total explanation, which the Pope Saint I just quoted said above in different words. Maybe this article will help for I think there is a gap in term usage: The Object of the Moral Act

Otherwise I am not sure how I can give the same explanation again. Perhaps it is that you do not think of or see natures in acts or moral objects.

Lain, the Laws of Moses do not comment upon morality, they are only interested in producing a people that are strong, invincible, healthy, populous, cohesive and caring.

The law about homosexuality is no more a 'moral' law than the law about securing roofs, or keeping from shellfish sickness. etc etc...... Christianity has cherry-picked laws as moral, and discarded all the rest as unimportant. Every law was important back then, and no law was about 'morality'.
 

joelr

Well-Known Member
Do you blindly follow scholarship?
If you believe in a religion then you blindly follow ancient myths with zero evidence to support them and huge amounts of evidence they are borrowed myths.



Individual Investigation has so much more value than Institutional Indoctrination.
Actually it's the exact opposite. This is a demonstrable fact. It's why we have peer-review. Any writer with funds can do "research", compose a book and pay for it to be published. It's done all the time. But if you care about what is true you can then read a real historian pointing out endless mistakes. A historian in any area has to be fluent on all languages used with source material, understand how to vette all sources and to go from Masters to PhD understands all this in the greatest possible detail. Then when they write a paper or book it has to pass review by all other experts. This system is set up so we can get the most reliable system possible.
Will new facts present themselves, yes. But this is by farthe best path to what is true.
To say "blindly following scholarship" just shows a disregard for the intense work scholars have to go through and shows a disregard for the best attempt at finding truth. So it isn't important to you. No one has to care about truth.
But scholars DO individual investigation once they get a PhD. But now they can read source material and have studies how to vette sources and then the work is reviewed for errors. If you want to stick to rank amateurs who search google for facts then have at it.



The writer of G-Mark was a partial witness and his deposition includes the memoirs of Cephas who also wrote about his greatest moments himself, in letters.

Sounds like something one would say after "individual investigation".

But actual historians like Sanders say - "The Gospel of Mark is anonymous."

It's also written exactly like a myth. Edwards says it in a nice way - "The hypothesis of Marcan priority continues to be held by the majority of scholars today, and there is a new recognition of the author as an artist and theologian using a range of literary devices to convey his conception of Jesus as the authoritative yet suffering Son of God.["

The literary devices, ring structure, triadic inversions, verbatim lines from the OT, and so on are what he used. Mark was clearly creating a Hellenistic savior demigod myth for Judaism, this was happening to all religions in the region.
 

Lain

Well-Known Member
Lain, the Laws of Moses do not comment upon morality, they are only interested in producing a people that are strong, invincible, healthy, populous, cohesive and caring.

The law about homosexuality is no more a 'moral' law than the law about securing roofs, or keeping from shellfish sickness. etc etc...... Christianity has cherry-picked laws as moral, and discarded all the rest as unimportant. Every law was important back then, and no law was about 'morality'.

Nothing you said here has anything at all to do with what you quoted me saying. I also disagree outright with all of it but that's obvious.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
If you believe in a religion then you blindly follow ancient myths with zero evidence to support them and huge amounts of evidence they are borrowed myths.
Sweepinf statement....what? :p

Actually it's the exact opposite. This is a demonstrable fact. It's why we have peer-review. Any writer with funds can do "research", compose a book and pay for it to be published. It's done all the time. But if you care about what is true you can then read a real historian pointing out endless mistakes.
When considering history, that's rubbish, I'm sad to say.
Folks will wave an 'expert' flag high to prove a point, and so other folks will wave another (opposing) 'expert' flag high to debate it..... and it goes on.
As soon as you auto believe 'experts' you believe in part mythology, part truth..... You've joined a religion! :D

Sounds like something one would say after "individual investigation".

But actual historians like Sanders say - "The Gospel of Mark is anonymous."
Indeed he did. Which I am inclined disagree with......... but if you auto believe something an historian wrote 50 years ago you've joined a cult.

It's also written exactly like a myth. Edwards says it in a nice way - "The hypothesis of Marcan priority continues to be held by the majority of scholars today, and there is a new recognition of the author as an artist and theologian using a range of literary devices to convey his conception of Jesus as the authoritative yet suffering Son of God.["
That's sad, because the mention 'Son of God' in the very first verse was added to later bibles.
There is no Son of God in G-Mark, apart from the fact that all Jews believed that their God was their Father.

The literary devices, ring structure, triadic inversions, verbatim lines from the OT, and so on are what he used. Mark was clearly creating a Hellenistic savior demigod myth for Judaism, this was happening to all religions in the region.
You just believe what you read.........
You should research for yourself, and you might find that Jesus was a man set against the greed and corruption within the Priesthood. That's it.
Put down the expert's book occasionally, and look for yourself, I would suggest.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Many Christians prefer their own personal narrative. Learning who actually wrote the books of the Bible can get in the way of that. As well as knowing what is within those books.
Yep. I like what I call 'social Christians' who focus mostly upon just that...social gatherings, community, etc. But the extreme sections that think, speak and write gobbledegook are just fascinating forms of humanity.

The 'Jesus wrote all the bible, and took the Israelites out of Egypt, and caused a big flood'...... types. *shivers*
 

Lain

Well-Known Member
Then you have not studied the Laws of Moses. :)

I have studied them and I am a theonomist, it's part of what we do. In the post you quoted of mine I did not mention the Laws of Moses at all (and so everything you said concerning them was unrelated to what I said, as I said before), and then it seemed that you assumed I think things about them that I do not, and now you're saying that I didn't study them based on me dismissing your unrelated comments. More power to you I guess.
 
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