Justifying the belief in hell.

[Link]

Salam

The Quran says regarding hell that no one denies it except the wicked people. It also says who fears God will enter paradise. It seems then per Quran our destiny almost solely based on if we accept hell or not. If we accept hell and believe in it, we are automatically fearful of God as we would be believers in his wrath and automatically fear hell.

If we deny it, we probably, have lost fear that we can go there and more over per Quran, we are of the wicked people.

If you just hear one side to a stance, you will, probably, take one side. Taking both sides is a lot harder. As stated in the past, I've done a poem when I was a non-believer that showed my problem with hellfire during that time.

Heretic's defiance:

Say Islam was true
And I was a Jew
Would God torture me
For what I did not see?

In the name of justice
Pain as the flames burn
Days turn into weeks
Weeks into years
All for disbelief
I will have no relief

Billions of years pass by
Justice is still not served
All good is rejected
My good actions are ineffective
And I would not burn if my mind was reflective?

This is the creed that I use to follow
But now I realize such a creed is shallow
Whomever desires other than the true religion
Let him burn in the fire?!
As oppose to loving him, having compassion for him
Appreciating his good,
Honoring his struggles,
Being his friend,
No! No! That is not the way!

For God is enemy of those whom disbelieve!
Friend and Protector of those whom believe!
All are reduced to the lowest of the low!
Except - of course - for those all special and great believers!
Everyone but them, to hell they go!

All astray souls - be prepared for increasing burning!
For none but the guided will have peace!
Is that the remembrance that is suppose to bring ease?
Peace you say?
Bowing Five times a day!
To a Lord whom will watch humans burn in agony?
Having the believers laugh at them for the sake of an irony?

A Lord whom tortures everyone but the righteous guided?
A Lord whom loves not the disbelievers!
Hates them with a strong hatred!
And all this teachings is suppose to be sacred?

Most Merciful, Most Compassionate is he called by all!
But threatens all to hell, except those whom respond to the call?
If you have to be righteous to enter heaven.
What mercy was ever spread in creation?
Or is God accepting regret from a righteous person
Truly a show of ultra mercy, forgiveness, and compassion?
As if it's not justice to accept his regret and reformation!

At the end, O Lord of Islam!
If you are to burn me for this heresy
Then you truly were not a Lord of Mercy.
Not Worthy of Worship, not worth anyone's time.




This is to show, I've been empathetic and even sided with the view that hell-fire is not just and a compassionate God would be above it.


What I will be showing through posts, is why I believe hell-fire is a very rational and morally good thing to believe.

It's important how we phrase things, because often conjecture from Iblis, is said in a flowery way, that sounds good, but reason doesn't accord to it.

 

[Link]

The notion can be summarized in the following.

Good and evil are not alike.
Light and darkness are not alike.
Seeing and blind not alike.
Those who are attracted to God and his chosen ones are not alike to those who run away from them as if running away from Lions.

This is the first notion is to accept that good person is not like the evil person. There is of course a category of neither believer or disbeliever, and their affair awaits God's judgment. But for the sake of this thread, we won't be dealing with the more neutral between good and evil ground, as that is more complex.

We are dealing with the notion of a disbeliever who has a way to believe but decides to chase the vain world and doesn't give God's guidance a chance.

When it comes to morality, it's simple, it's love guided properly to value things as they are and act in accordance to the truth of valuing and value. If we decided to make up reality per our own wishes, can we be deemed "good" morally?

And what are the consequences for those who don't care for the truth that they turn away from the truth for their caprice and desires? What is the consequences of those who know miracles and witnessed them, yet accused those doing of it being evil sorcerers or possessed souls controlled by evil Jinn?

You see, how you phrase things, changes perspective. If you focus on someone you love and lust, and don't want them going to hell, it's very easy to see hell as an evil concept. But if you mentally break down what good and evil is, it's hard to see that evil and good people both go to paradise or evil people are not exacted punishment and torture for their deeds.

 

[Link]

The second important thing is to realize that God is the most retributive in exacting vengeance in it's proper place just as he is the most compassionate in exacting pardon and compassion in it's proper place.

Vengeance not only has a place, but has ultimate reality too. The same ultimate reality of vengeance is the ultimate reality of compassion, it's one glory, undivided essence, and it's about the proper place. The same Glory and beauty that makes God compassionate towards his friends - the same righteous light, makes his wrathful and exact vengeance on evil people and his enemies.

It's not that one prevents the other, but rather, this is what it means to be God. God is balanced.

 

[Link]

The other thing to know, is that a lot of things are tautological proofs. If hell is a reality, God is a reality. if God is a reality, hell is a reality. But a lot of people don't know that concept of hell has levels, it exists in all worlds encompassing disbelievers including this one. In this one, God has kept the heaven/sky/light igniting it and has left it's flames and reality to be tolerated. When we die, it's intensified, but still it's quiet enough to be undetected.

It's only on the day of judgment that reality of God's judgment and hell comes to reality. Our deeds take full living forms and we are accounted by them and judgment which encompassed in this world, takes on a whole new level.

But that is to say if you can witness hell in this world, it's a way to witness God and his judgment and hence know God exists. And this through realizing God alone knows his enemies just he alone knows his friends as in fully knows their reality, and so your reality is dormant. Guilt itself manifests hell to a great degree and accountability we are heading towards.

 

[Link]

The other notion is to keep in mind the spiritual world. Just as there are devils and misguiding Jinn as companions and who witness us, there is the Stars of guidance connected to us and the Guide who connects us to the sky of this world.

If we were attracted to enemies of ourselves and God over God's lights and his elite forces that are the kings and guides - what is the consequence of such a turning away from higher reality towards falsehood?

Those who disbelieve in God when God is connected to all things and make up God according to their caprice and ignore his proof in form of light - which holy books manifest, but it's more then a book, what is the consequence of such evil?

The pure tree from God vs the unclean tree. Why do we cling to unclean leaders and heads of devils, when God provided us a pure tree of light that guides his creation?

What is the consequence of such a decision?

 

[Brickjectivity]

The second important thing is to realize that God is the most retributive in exacting vengeance in it's proper place just as he is the most compassionate in exacting pardon and compassion in it's proper place.

So he is not constantly merciful but sometimes merciful and sometimes vengeful depending on who he is dealing with.

These are the characteristics of someone who feels like we feel, gets angry, resents and hates and loves. It sounds very human. That is, it sounds very frightening.

 

[Link]

So he is not constantly merciful but sometimes merciful and sometimes vengeful depending on who he is dealing with.

These are the characteristics of someone who feels like we feel, gets angry, resents and hates and loves. It sounds very human. That is, it sounds very frightening.

God is not a calculator, he is a person, his personality is the utmost highest glory, and is balanced that he retributes evil with evil and goodness with goodness. Vengeance is a virtue in it's proper place. Nothing is a virtue in a misplaced place. Extreme courage is not courage but foolishness. Everything has a place and balanced limit when it comes to descriptions of God - who is one undivided essence, utmost wrath is utmost compassion from the point that God is One/single undivided essence.

 

[Link]

One of the causes of disbelieving in hell can be summarized in following caprice in sexual lust. Yusuf (a) says "and if you do not turn me away from them, I will seek tranquility in/incline towards them and become of the ignorant".. The Quran also says he would have inclined were it not for proof from his Lord. And Quran says "do not follow the caprices/low desires, so they lead you away from the path..."

This ignorance takes place when one is sexual dishonorable, but doesn't perceive the consequences of their actions on society as a whole and on themselves. They become ignorant of why it's deemed such a intense evil by God and then take on form of seeing people who deem their acts and sexual dishonorable as deserving hell as themselves being evil. They believe God's judgment is harsh or without basis, because, they don't reflect on the consequences or love their caprice acts so much, and don't want them to be evil, they see people deeming to be evil to be evil themselves.

Consequently, believing in God's proof is what prevents from desires, but also following desires leads to blindness to God's proof and light.

Reason and caprice are against one another in this regard.

 

[Fool]

Salam

The Quran says regarding hell that no one denies it except the wicked people. It also says who fears God will enter paradise. It seems then per Quran our destiny almost solely based on if we accept hell or not. If we accept hell and believe in it, we are automatically fearful of God as we would be believers in his wrath and automatically fear hell.

If we deny it, we probably, have lost fear that we can go there and more over per Quran, we are of the wicked people.

If you just hear one side to a stance, you will, probably, take one side. Taking both sides is a lot harder. As stated in the past, I've done a poem when I was a non-believer that showed my problem with hellfire during that time.

Heretic's defiance:

Say Islam was true
And I was a Jew
Would God torture me
For what I did not see?

In the name of justice
Pain as the flames burn
Days turn into weeks
Weeks into years
All for disbelief
I will have no relief

Billions of years pass by
Justice is still not served
All good is rejected
My good actions are ineffective
And I would not burn if my mind was reflective?

This is the creed that I use to follow
But now I realize such a creed is shallow
Whomever desires other than the true religion
Let him burn in the fire?!
As oppose to loving him, having compassion for him
Appreciating his good,
Honoring his struggles,
Being his friend,
No! No! That is not the way!

For God is enemy of those whom disbelieve!
Friend and Protector of those whom believe!
All are reduced to the lowest of the low!
Except - of course - for those all special and great believers!
Everyone but them, to hell they go!

All astray souls - be prepared for increasing burning!
For none but the guided will have peace!
Is that the remembrance that is suppose to bring ease?
Peace you say?
Bowing Five times a day!
To a Lord whom will watch humans burn in agony?
Having the believers laugh at them for the sake of an irony?

A Lord whom tortures everyone but the righteous guided?
A Lord whom loves not the disbelievers!
Hates them with a strong hatred!
And all this teachings is suppose to be sacred?

Most Merciful, Most Compassionate is he called by all!
But threatens all to hell, except those whom respond to the call?
If you have to be righteous to enter heaven.
What mercy was ever spread in creation?
Or is God accepting regret from a righteous person
Truly a show of ultra mercy, forgiveness, and compassion?
As if it's not justice to accept his regret and reformation!

At the end, O Lord of Islam!
If you are to burn me for this heresy
Then you truly were not a Lord of Mercy.
Not Worthy of Worship, not worth anyone's time.




This is to show, I've been empathetic and even sided with the view that hell-fire is not just and a compassionate God would be above it.


What I will be showing through posts, is why I believe hell-fire is a very rational and morally good thing to believe.

It's important how we phrase things, because often conjecture from Iblis, is said in a flowery way, that sounds good, but reason doesn't accord to it.

so if you don't have a physical body, how can one be tormented in hell except through mind?

hell is not so much another place as it is service to self and the turning away from love to all as self. god is divided from self by self's selfish motives and self's choice. heaven is a place where everyone is altruistic and concerned and helpful towards all beings.

hell is a place where the selfish only wants suffering to cease for self.

 

[Link]

Reason is highly important to perfect. Take for example, two sides at war. It's through reason and truthfulness to oneself that one can take side of the right side of that war.

When one follows caprice, there is not only consequences on their individual life, but evil people easily misguide such people to unjust wars and cause mischief in the earth.

Corruption must be opposed, because justice cannot be established if humans are inwardly dishonorable and corrupt. Honor is needed for society to function properly, for us to take side of the truthful in conflicts, and for us to take side of the truth, we must be able to reason properly and not be misguided by Satanic magic.

This is the other thing that I have not mentioned. Is Demonic magic and demons and their "shadow" they perceive as "guiding light" vs the True Authority of God's holy spirit on earth which is the true King and Leader of our time.

 

[Link]

so if you don't have a physical body, how can one be tormented in hell except through mind?

hell is not so much another place as it is service to self and the turning away from love to all as self. god is divided from self by self's selfish motives and self's choice. heaven is a place where everyone is altruistic and concerned and helpful towards all beings.

hell is a place where the selfish only wants suffering to cease for self.

This is hell when it's in quiet mode. But the world of spirit/mind will become more manifest and loud on day of judgment. Part of detecting hell is to see evil people have it in this world in more unseen quiet state yes, but also that it will take full reality and loudness will be heard from it on the day of judgment till it fully encompasses them. Day of judgment is when the hidden is manifest and takes full form.

 

[Link]

Some people let the evil rulers do everything they want, and say, well I had nothing to do with this. This is another perspective on justifying hell. Not follow God's guidance and being apathetic to helping the Guide and his followers in terms of justice, causes humans to suffer as people that are apathetic are loudly saying "Do what you want! I don't care that much to try to stop you!"

More over, on the day of judgment, they will not be able to propagate their conjecture (misguiding people) and offer excuses. But in this world, they do this, they misguide humanity and offer excuses to not being just or good.

When no soul can control for another soul, the trial is over. And souls trying to guide people to truth, justice and goodness and themselves apply their commands of good to their best ability and forbid evil, cannot be compared to apathetic souls who ignored everyone's plight of suffering.

Apathetic souls not caring for oppressed it itself a high oppression and cruelty deserving hell-fire.

 

[Link]

The guides and God's revelations are to be catalysts to bringing humanity towards peace, harmony and justice. What is the consequences when people make ambiguous what is clear, confuse people when mental clarity has been provided, misguide people when guidance has been set by God?

And why do people incline to those who misguide, confuse, lie, deceive, and are themselves not guided over God's chosen guides. This itself has to have consequences.

 

[Link]

As mentioned before, there is dark magic as well. As there is dark magic, there is power and light from God. If we incline to the misguiding unclean energy over that of the pure sustenance from God's power, honor, and sky/heaven/light - why did we do so?

This is a hidden test. There is actions we see consequences and know, then there is what is hidden in our hearts. The nature of both claim love, but one love is in fact jealousy towards the other, and God's chosen are not to be envied but loved. If we envy them - we can deceive ourselves about love and be nice people, but we are being cruel to God's chosen ones and are not being so nice to the best humans - and the question is why.

In this case, the righteous clothes we attribute ourselves, are deceptions of ourselves from dark magic. What is sad is most demonic Satanic misguiding jinn themselves think they are guided while in this world or at least trick themselves to be. In these deceptions, we lose touch with truth and reality of our own intentions and build our life on a deceptive mask we take.

This itself - the cure - was simple - be true to yourself and accept the truth and don't hate it but just accept it.

 

[Brickjectivity]

God is not a calculator, he is a person, his personality is the utmost highest glory, and is balanced that he retributes evil with evil and goodness with goodness. Vengeance is a virtue in it's proper place. Nothing is a virtue in a misplaced place. Extreme courage is not courage but foolishness. Everything has a place and balanced limit when it comes to descriptions of God - who is one undivided essence, utmost wrath is utmost compassion from the point that God is One/single undivided essence.

Some people have proposed that the entire universe might revolve around Earth by means of a very complicated motion. Isn't that funny?

Why would a man be so important that God would bother to punish for eternity or reward for eternity either? I can't make sense of it. God revolving around me?

I can easily imagine an eternity of torment by an accident. If no one were paying attention it could happen -- me just sliding out of this very comforting and useful body into a naked ghost form. If I indeed have a ghost and my body dies I may enter screaming into darkness and confusion -- no not even that, not even being able to scream or to breathe. What is a man without his hands and skin and eyes and ears? He is lost. This frightens me more than hell.

 

[Alienistic]

And why do people incline to those who misguide, confuse, lie, deceive, and are themselves not guided over God's chosen guides. This itself has to have consequences.

Would you suppose that this Earth realm is overall doing what it can to hide, suppress, confuse, mock, distort, corrupt, destroy Truth or that this Earth realm is overall doing what it can to reveal and show Truth, handing it over on a silver platter to everyone and anyone? Or a balance of both?

It wouldn’t be too difficult, knowing the human qualities - to deceive, misguide, confuse, lie to the human race and the human race thinking that it is Truth.

 

[Peter Stanley]

God will judge by whats in your heart hidden away from everyone else but God - a person who looks clean on the outside maybe harboring very evil thoughts - not doing something out of fear does not change that or the evil within - its still in you.Unless you understand what is evil and rid yourself of it nothing has been changed you just haven't done it.In the Christian view you are just as guilty as if you committed the sin.Fear is not true respect its forced - I would never trust anyone who feared me.

 

[Link]

Would you suppose that this Earth realm is overall doing what it can to hide, suppress, confuse, mock, distort, corrupt, destroy Truth or that this Earth realm is overall doing what it can to reveal and show Truth, handing it over on a silver platter to everyone and anyone? Or a balance of both?

It wouldn’t be too difficult, knowing the human qualities - to deceive, misguide, confuse, lie to the human race and the human race thinking that it is Truth.

It's easy to say things are the way they are meant to be. But I believe this a catastrophic spiritual disease passed one generation to another. The problem is people who know the truth are apathetic to teaching it and people who don't know the truth are passionate about their conjectures and falsehood.

 

[Link]

God will judge by whats in your heart hidden away from everyone else but God - a person who looks clean on the outside maybe harboring very evil thoughts - not doing something out of fear does not change that or the evil within - its still in you.Unless you understand what is evil and rid yourself of it nothing has been changed you just haven't done it.In the Christian view you are just as guilty as if you committed the sin.Fear is not true respect its forced - I would never trust anyone who feared me.

Fear is good because it makes you know you are accountable for your evil and that evil is deserving of consequences. Repentance is important but we also have to battle with Satanic magic and defeat it.

 

[Peter Stanley]

But unfortunately it doesn't make you a better person you just didn't commit the evil act because of fear