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Main Stream Media Dying....Independent Media is the Future

tytlyf

Not Religious
Democrats are no more honest and truthful than Republicans are including the news sources.
You haven't done your research. Provide proof.

There's no such thing as honest and accurate news anymore.
According to who? RW grifters lying to you?
The people responsible for dividing the country are RW 'newsmakers.' Lying to the country and tricking people into believing conspiracy theories and propaganda.

You can disagree all you want. I'd wager the majority of things you are taught by your media are lies about Democrats. This is how republicans stay in power. Lying to the public with hopes they'll vote against a party rather than for.
 

Moonjuice

In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
You haven't done your research. Provide proof.


According to who? RW grifters lying to you?
The people responsible for dividing the country are RW 'newsmakers.' Lying to the country and tricking people into believing conspiracy theories and propaganda.

You can disagree all you want. I'd wager the majority of things you are taught by your media are lies about Democrats. This is how republicans stay in power. Lying to the public with hopes they'll vote against a party rather than for.
Dude. Every statement you have made has been equally divisive. This is the point of the topic! You have been duped, they have been duped, we all have been duped. You have been duped into thinking the Democratic party has the countries best interests at heart, while the Republicans are trying to destroy it. And vice versa. The reality is, the wealthy elites rule this country. It doesn't matter who wins elections - everything they do is to first protect the interests of the wealthy (themselves) and second, get reelected. Third, is to make sure you direct all your anger at the Republicans and they direct all their anger at Democrats. It couldn't be more obvious.

Do you want proof? Let me show you how income tax works work for wealthy people. I started a business with two nickels in my pocket. I was able to raise $500k from investors and I own roughly 40% of the business. During year 1, I lost all $500k in development (part of the plan),while I took a paycheck every month. I didn't invest $1, I didn't lose $1. The following year I made $75k. Guess how much I paid in taxes??? ZERO. Absolutely nothing.

Why? Because, the business that I own 40% of lost $500k. So based on the tax code, I lost 40% of $500k ($200k). I get to pretend I lost $200k, when I really didn't lose $1. I am also allowed to write off that $200k pretend loss for 7 years. As a result, I paid no taxes the first year. No taxes the second year, and only partially paid taxes the third year when my $200k loss was finally used up. If I continued to make my money this way, I could effectively make millions and pay little to no taxes myself. This is EXACLTY why we never saw Trump's tax returns, because he makes almost all of his income this way, so I am guessing he pays no taxes (he always has huge pretend losses). This is one of dozens of ways the wealthy are able to pay way less than the average middle class W-2 filer.

The wealthy elites have convinced the poor & middle class that they shouldn't have to pay as much in taxes as we do, because they are going to take this money and create more businesses and more jobs. In reality, its going directly in their pockets. Bigger houses, bigger yachts, gold toilets.

Now, what could we do if they made me pay income tax and everyone else who makes income this way? Well, we could easily cover things like Medicare for everyone. Or an additional 4 years of school, to add to the 12 years we get for free now. We could eradicate homelessness. We could eradicate starvation in this country. We could do something about the mentally ill people roaming the streets of every city across the country. We could pay police offers twice as much, to attract only the best talent and decrease or completely eradicate police brutality. The list goes on and on. OR...we can just do the same horse**** we do now, which is absolutely nothing but make sure the rich get richer, while we blame each others political parties for the countries problems.
 
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Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Has anyone else been keeping up with what is happening with independent media? Anyone watching Breaking Points on YouTube?
For a long time I have been under the impression that the real issue with American politics (and our government in general) is the ruling class of wealthy elites are completely destroying the American dream in order to get richer and more powerful. I have thought for a long time that if you want to pull the wool over peoples eyes, all you have to do is get them to fight amongst themselves - while you pick their pockets.
And this is the shallow nonsense one gets by dispensing with informed research and professional journalism.
 

Moonjuice

In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
And this is the shallow nonsense one gets by dispensing with informed research and professional journalism.
Well shoot, you've mad such a great point, you are right. My informed opinion is shallow nonsense! Thanks for letting me know. Now, where can I go to get the facts from informed research and professional journalism? Where can I go to follow politics without running into shallow nonsense?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
You have been duped into thinking the Democratic party has the countries best interests at heart, while the Republicans are trying to destroy it.

Who is doing this duping? The politicians? The media?

I look at who has done what. I look at who is doing what.

Democrats passed the first really significant health insurance policy. Republicans tried to block it. When that failed, they tried to repeal it.

Currently, the Democrats are trying to get money to repair this country's obsolete and crumbling infrastructure. Republicans want to do half.
Democrats want to improve the lives of many people by providing things like daycare and maternal leave. Republicans say NO.
Democrats want to raise taxes and tighten loopholes on corporate and wealthy taxpayers. Republicans say NO.
Republicans support Trump's lies about the election being stolen.

While you moan and grown about people being duped, some of us are paying attention to what is actually happening.


everything they do is to first protect the interests of the wealthy (themselves) and second, get reelected.
I'll agree to some extent. Politician's first priority is getting elected and reelected.
 

Moonjuice

In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Currently, the Democrats are trying to get money to repair this country's obsolete and crumbling infrastructure. Republicans want to do half.
Democrats want to improve the lives of many people by providing things like daycare and maternal leave. Republicans say NO.
Democrats want to raise taxes and tighten loopholes on corporate and wealthy taxpayers. Republicans say NO.
Republicans support Trump's lies about the election being stolen.
I totally agree with everything you listed here. And, yet, I still think you are being duped just like the rest of us. Yes, by these politicians and by the biased media. Otherwise, by your logic, all it takes is "paying attention to what is actually happening" and then we will all come to the conclusion that one pollical party is doing good and the other isn't. Moaning and groaning is good, as long as you direct it at the other political party and not both parties? Thanks for helping me make the point!

In a moment, I assume a Republican (who is currently searching the internet for a list of what Democrats did to block Republican's good moves when they where in power) will respond with their own list, because they too are paying attention and yet somehow coming to the opposite conclusion. The D's and R's make their lists, year after year, same old- same old. Half the country agrees with you, half the country will agree with the Republican list while the overarching problem is ultimately ignored. There is a huge difference between what politicians claim they are trying to do, and what they're actually doing. They tell you they are trying to accomplish something for you, which is being blocked by the other side, when in reality they don't need to accomplish anything (maybe they don't even want it to go through?) in order to get you to support and reelect them. It's just the game they have to play to continue to make folks like you blame the other political party for their lack of accomplishments. Either way, they get richer & more powerful, while we make lists and blame each other for not paying attention.

Democrats believe republicans cater to the wealthy elites, and republicans believe its the democrats that cater to the wealthy elites. Meanwhile, the leaders of both parties ARE the wealthy elites, getting elected by wealthiest of the wealthy elites. This is what I see when I pay attention to what is actually going on.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Well shoot, you've mad such a great point, you are right. My informed opinion is shallow nonsense! Thanks for letting me know.
Not a problem.

Now, where can I go to get the facts from informed research and professional journalism? Where can I go to follow politics without running into shallow nonsense?
I am reasonably good at detecting quality reporting. I am very good at detecting rabbit holes.

Have a great day.[/QUOTE]
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Democrats believe republicans cater to the wealthy elites, and republicans believe its the democrats that cater to the wealthy elites.
Republicans offer corporate and wealthy policies. Democrats offer middle class policy and nowhere near as corporate.
The only republicans who think democrats are the party of corporations, haven't done their research and probably don't understand what Republican economic policy is. (Their media doesn't tell them).
Meanwhile, the leaders of both parties ARE the wealthy elites, getting elected by wealthiest of the wealthy elites.
Faulty logic. It's not democrats electing wealthy elitists and millionaires/billionaires.
The republican party is controlled by the largest corporations in the country. Big Oil, Big Tobacco, MIC, Big Pharma, Big Insurance, etc.
This is just how it is.

Republicans = Corporate/1% policy
Democrats = Middle class/worker policy
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Do you want proof? Let me show you how income tax works work for wealthy people. I started a business with two nickels in my pocket. I was able to raise $500k from investors and I own roughly 40% of the business. During year 1, I lost all $500k in development (part of the plan),while I took a paycheck every month. I didn't invest $1, I didn't lose $1. The following year I made $75k. Guess how much I paid in taxes??? ZERO. Absolutely nothing.
Guess which party fights to keep the tax code as loose as possible for the wealthy? Republicans.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
I totally agree with everything you listed here. And, yet, I still think you are being duped just like the rest of us. Yes, by these politicians and by the biased media. Otherwise, by your logic, all it takes is "paying attention to what is actually happening" and then we will all come to the conclusion that one pollical party is doing good and the other isn't. Moaning and groaning is good, as long as you direct it at the other political party and not both parties? Thanks for helping me make the point!


I never suggested your moaning and groaning was doing any good. I wasn't moaning and groaning.

I pointed out actual instances of what members of political parties had done and are doing.

If you think that helps your point, you are failing to understand what I wrote.

In a moment, I assume a Republican (who is currently searching the internet for a list of what Democrats did to block Republican's good moves when they where in power) will respond with their own list, because they too are paying attention and yet somehow coming to the opposite conclusion.

You are the one who says we are being duped, not someone else. Don't wait for them to make your argument.

The D's and R's make their lists, year after year, same old- same old.

I wasn't looking at any lists. Don't you get that? I was looking at actual actions. Not some garbage lists that you seem to believe politicians are shoving at me (and you and everyone).

This is what I see when I pay attention to what is actually going on.

You see lists. I see actions. Tell me again how you are paying attention.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Which of the policies Obama or Clinton factually implemented would you characterize as "worker policy"?

ACA. Just ask any of the 20 million people using it.

On the other hand, consider the Trump/Republican 2017 tax cut that so many Republican sheeples thought was wonderful.

Fundamentally Flawed 2017 Tax Law Largely Leaves Low- and Moderate-Income Americans Behind | Center on Budget and Policy Priorities
Fundamentally Flawed 2017 Tax Law Largely Leaves Low- and Moderate-Income Americans Behind
Testimony of Chye-Ching Huang, Director of Federal Fiscal Policy, Before the House Budget Committee

FEBRUARY 27, 2019

| BY CHYE-CHING HUANG

Chairman Yarmuth, Ranking Member Womack, and distinguished members of the Committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify. I will first outline the fundamental flaws of the 2017 tax law:
1) it ignores the stagnation of working-class wages and exacerbates inequality;
2) it weakens revenues when the nation needs to raise more; and
3) it encourages rampant tax avoidance and gaming that will undermine the integrity of tax code.

I will then explain in more detail how the 2017 tax law largely left behind low- and moderate-income Americans — and in many ways hurts them.​
 

Kooky

Freedom from Sanity
ACA. Just ask any of the 20 million people using it.
Thank you. Are you taking into account other possibly more labor friendly models of public health insurance, or are we operating under the assumption that the ACA is as good as public health coverage in the US is ever going to get?

Your turn. Give us a Bush/Trump pro-worker policy. How about the Trump Republican 2017 tax cut?
I think you completely misunderstand my position in this discussion. I was asking specifically about the Democratic party because a claim was made that they were uniquely pro-working class.
 

Moonjuice

In the time of chimpanzees I was a monkey
Republicans offer corporate and wealthy policies. Democrats offer middle class policy and nowhere near as corporate.
The only republicans who think democrats are the party of corporations, haven't done their research and probably don't understand what Republican economic policy is. (Their media doesn't tell them).
Every time you post, you continue to make my point. I'd like to refute your info with the Republican equivalent, but I agree "their media doesn't tell them (about what Dem policies are good)". The same way your media doesn't tell you about any negative Dem polices, or any positive Republican policies. Hence the sudden growth in audiences of independent media outlets, and the huge decrease in audiences of what used to be the top mainstream media outlets just a few years ago. It would certainly be helpful if we all had the same accurate information to base our decisions on.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Every time you post, you continue to make my point. I'd like to refute your info with the Republican equivalent, but I agree "their media doesn't tell them (about what Dem policies are good)". The same way your media doesn't tell you about any negative Dem polices, or any positive Republican policies. Hence the sudden growth in audiences of independent media outlets, and the huge decrease in audiences of what used to be the top mainstream media outlets just a few years ago. It would certainly be helpful if we all had the same accurate information to base our decisions on.
Some independent journalism is good. What's more important is viewing as many sources as possible.
Even sticking to independent journalist opinion on a story isn't as good as listening to a dozen different sources.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Thank you. Are you taking into account other possibly more labor friendly models of public health insurance, or are we operating under the assumption that the ACA is as good as public health coverage in the US is ever going to get?
Unless the Democrats get 60 members in the Senate (highly doubtful) the answer to your question is: Yes.


I think you completely misunderstand my position in this discussion. I was asking specifically about the Democratic party because a claim was made that they were uniquely pro-working class.

I don't know about "uniquely", but certainly far better than the Republicans.
 

Friend of Mara

Active Member
Has anyone else been keeping up with what is happening with independent media? Anyone watching Breaking Points on YouTube?
For a long time I have been under the impression that the real issue with American politics (and our government in general) is the ruling class of wealthy elites are completely destroying the American dream in order to get richer and more powerful. I have thought for a long time that if you want to pull the wool over peoples eyes, all you have to do is get them to fight amongst themselves - while you pick their pockets.

This what I see with mainstream media and the Republican and Democratic parties in general. To me, its disgusting. I mean choosing between a Hilary or a Donald Trump to lead America? What a nightmare. Anyway, Breaking Points is a YouTube channel with just two people, a Republican and a Democrat. There is no corporation behind it, they can and do say whatever they want. They tell it like it is. Finally, a place where you can get political news that points out the idiocy of the Republican party, right next to the idiocy of the Democratic party, and tries to focus our attention on the real issue. It's taking off and I think this country will be a better place if people drop the FOX News's and CNN's because it really isn't news. The courts have decided.
There probably needs to be a law or something of the like for unbiased news. We have analysts and charts that can more or less objectively see which news source tends to be objective rather than politically leaning. The BBC news in England for example might have some political leanings but is very dry boring news reporting. The closest thing we have to that in the US is the NPR which is very broad and does have some "entertainment" pieces but are usually still set up mostly as unbiased news. Though I will be the first to say that while NPR is far better than cable news it does still have the framework of upper class white arguably liberal perspective.

As for laws I would probably suggest something that is publicly owned and funded with little to no actual profit incentive. It will do badly in the market as people gravitate towards more entertaining things that match their biases.
 
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