Why does god need to test us?

[Bird123]

More straw men. Nobody serves me up anything. I am not dependent upon religion.

Why do you speak for me like you know me? Why not just speak for yourself?

Then I suggest you drop your beliefs.

Then why do you keep promulgating your beliefs?

I merely place Real Truth in the world so it will be there for those who are ready to Discover it. With all those beliefs in the world, surely you can't value beliefs so much that you want the Real Truth to be missing.

So much is said about God that simply isn't true. You might think religion is all good, however if you weren't so blind, you would see people do get hurt by religion.

Contrary to popular belief, religion is teaching people to value the petty things mankind holds so dear. This is not goodness!! Given enough time and lessons, this will make religion obsolete when people see religion for what it really is, the reflection of those writing the religion.

I have yet to find any religion that really understands God. On the other hand, they all do seem to have some pieces within them.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I never said one should not defend oneself. Everyone wants to rule the world is mankind's greatest problem. Did you know that the countries that allow the greatest freedoms have the highest standards of living?

God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. The greater diversity of ideas leads to more possibilities and a Wider View!! Thus the economies can't help but be better. Let freedom reign.

Diversity is good but unbridled freedom isn't good.

How is your murder rate doing? Any chance it will disappear? Why aren't all your holy books doing any good? Why isn't your justice system doing any good?

It is not my justice system and they are not my holy books.
The holy books are not doing any good because people break the laws of God.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand..” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150

Clearly, your idea of punishment is doing no good. If you do the same thing, how can you expect different results? The murder rate will never fall drastically until you Solve the problems yet it seems very little is being done to do just that.

It is not my idea of punishment, it is from the criminal justice system and Baha'u'llah.
Do you have a way to Solve the problems? Unconditional love and unbridled freedom so everyone can learn their lessons at the expense of other people?

I can not define anyone as evil. To do so would be to Hate. The murderer along with everyone else are exactly the same. All are learning things they do not understand. All are children of God. All are equal.

The things you say are incredible. A murderer is not the same as a saint in the sight of God, only in your sight.

“Let no one imagine that by Our assertion that all created things are the signs of the revelation of God is meant that—God forbid—all men, be they good or evil, pious or infidel, are equal in the sight of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 187

Unconditional Love is the Best choice for everyone. If you do not think it is, you either do not really understand Unconditional Love or you are choosing to hate.

You are completely illogical because you see everything in terms of black and white, so for you it is either unconditional love or it is hate. That is not reality, it is your paper doll world.

Unconditional Love is not the Best choice for anyone.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I merely place Real Truth in the world so it will be there for those who are ready to Discover it.

Where are you getting the Real Truth? Are you a Messenger of God?

So much is said about God that simply isn't true. You might think religion is all good, however if you weren't so blind, you would see people do get hurt by religion.

Some people do get hurt by some religions mainly because those religions have been corrupted by man, but that is no reason to dispense with all religions.

Contrary to popular belief, religion is teaching people to value the petty things mankind holds so dear. This is not goodness!! Given enough time and lessons, this will make religion obsolete when people see religion for what it really is, the reflection of those writing the religion

Religion will never become obsolete given enough time and lessons. Religion will be renewed in every age after it has been corrupted by man and when humanity needs a new message from God owing to the changing times.

I have yet to find any religion that really understands God. On the other hand, they all do seem to have some pieces within them.

And of course you understand God because you got a direct Revelation from God.

 

[Bird123]

Diversity is good but unbridled freedom isn't good.

It is not my justice system and they are not my holy books.
The holy books are not doing any good because people break the laws of God.

“God hath in that Book, and by His behest, decreed as lawful whatsoever He hath pleased to decree, and hath, through the power of His sovereign might, forbidden whatsoever He elected to forbid. To this testifieth the text of that Book. Will ye not bear witness? Men, however, have wittingly broken His law. Is such a behavior to be attributed to God, or to their proper selves? Be fair in your judgment. Every good thing is of God, and every evil thing is from yourselves. Will ye not comprehend? This same truth hath been revealed in all the Scriptures, if ye be of them that understand..” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 149-150

It is not my idea of punishment, it is from the criminal justice system and Baha'u'llah.
Do you have a way to Solve the problems? Unconditional love and unbridled freedom so everyone can learn their lessons at the expense of other people?

The things you say are incredible. A murderer is not the same as a saint in the sight of God, only in your sight.

“Let no one imagine that by Our assertion that all created things are the signs of the revelation of God is meant that—God forbid—all men, be they good or evil, pious or infidel, are equal in the sight of God.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 187

You are completely illogical because you see everything in terms of black and white, so for you it is either unconditional love or it is hate. That is not reality, it is your paper doll world.

Unconditional Love is not the Best choice for anyone.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

your quoteiversity is good but unbridled freedom isn't good.
My Answer: Then should it be your freedom that should be the first taken away?

your quote:
It is not my justice system and they are not my holy books.
The holy books are not doing any good because people break the laws of God.
My Answer:You can't have it both ways. First, you say believe in your holy book and justice system of punishment then in the next breath you say they aren't yours. Do you even know yourself? Why aren't you true to yourself??

If ,as you say, holy books are doing no good, why have them at all??

your quoteo you have a way to Solve the problems?
My Answer: Yes, do the work necessary to Discover the answers and the problems disappear before your eyes.

your quote:Unconditional love and unbridled freedom so everyone can learn their lessons at the expense of other people?
My Answer:Why is it so many religious people think one is helpless under the realm of free will? I don't understand this. The answer is solve the problem.

your quote:A murderer is not the same as a saint in the sight of God, only in your sight.
My Answer: If you had two children and one was a murderer. Would not you love each equally? Would you really hate one?

your quote:You are completely illogical because you see everything in terms of black and white,
My Answer: In God's system, when one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the best choices. This might confuse some not far enough along. Clearly there is more for you to Discover.

Now is not the time to claim to have all the answers. There is always more to Discover. Those that claim to know all the answers reciting memorized holy books are Discovering very little until they look beyond. God is so much more than any book written by mankind.

Given enough time and lessons, everyone will Discover Unconditional Love is not only the answer but is for everyone.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Fool]

I've heard it said that god tests us with the challenges we face in life... But why? What's the point? What's the end goal of this test?

In known nordic mythologies, Odin takes the best warriors with him to Valhalla to train and get ready to fight in Ragnarok. Their test in life shows their fighting skill so they can be of actual use to the gods in that apocalyptic war. That makes sense to me...

What about Yahweh, though? What possible reason is there for testing us? What's this test for, and why does he need/want for us to pass it? Why does he care whether or not we pass this test, and why did he even make the test in the first place?

This is nothing new. In alchemy the mettle of a person determines their strengths. You don't want just anyone leading. This is why experienced people get to lead so the less experienced can learn.

This is why parents do everyday with their offspring

 

[Bird123]

Where are you getting the Real Truth? Are you a Messenger of God?

Some people do get hurt by some religions mainly because those religions have been corrupted by man, but that is no reason to dispense with all religions.

Religion will never become obsolete given enough time and lessons. Religion will be renewed in every age after it has been corrupted by man and when humanity needs a new message from God owing to the changing times.

And of course you understand God because you got a direct Revelation from God.

your quote:Are you a Messenger of God?

My Answer: God has no messengers. Truth is Discovered through watching God's actions then working at understanding those actions.

your quote:Some people do get hurt by some religions mainly because those religions have been corrupted by man, but that is no reason to dispense with all religions.

My Answer: Religions are all creations of mankind therefore they reflect mankind. If you blindly follow religions, you are not following God. You are following man.

your quote:Religion will never become obsolete given enough time and lessons. Religion will be renewed in every age after it has been corrupted by man and when humanity needs a new message from God owing to the changing times.

Unlike science, religion does not correct their errors. Most claim to know it all.

your quote:And of course you understand God because you got a direct Revelation from God.[/QUOTE]

My Answer: First one studies God's actions. In this time-based causal universe God's actions can be seen. God hides nothing. When I acquired the understanding of God and what God is doing with people and this planet and universe, I receive a visit from God. God isn't handing out answers or commands. God places knowledge all around so it can be Discovered. It is up to each of us what we want to Discover.

Learning about a Spiritual Being can present problems of proof in a physical world. I only had beliefs until God showed up with my proof. If I never had it right, God would never have shown up to confirm my understanding was not beliefs but the real truth.

God's actions speak to Who God really is. God's actions can not be altered. It is the only sure positive way to Discover the Real Truth.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

My Answer: Then should it be your freedom that should be the first taken away?

That’s fine with me, if it is for the good of humanity.

My Answer: You can't have it both ways. First, you say believe in your holy book and justice system of punishment then in the next breath you say they aren't yours. Do you even know yourself? Why aren't you true to yourself??

They are not mine because I did not write them. They are Baha’u’llah’s Writings.
I believe what Baha’u’llah wrote.

If, as you say, holy books are doing no good, why have them at all??

I never said they are not doing any good. They do much good for those who adhere to them.

My Answer: Yes, do the work necessary to Discover the answers and the problems disappear before your eyes.

Poof, they are gone, just like magic. You live in a fantasy world.

My Answer: Why is it so many religious people think one is helpless under the realm of free will? I don't understand this. The answer is solve the problem.

But how do you solve the problem? Discover!

My Answer: If you had two children and one was a murderer. Would not you love each equally? Would you really hate one?

All parents love their children, but good parents also have expectations. If the children don’t live up to those expectations there are consequences. It is no different for God. God has expectations and if we don’t live up to those expectations there are consequences.
All actions have consequences. That's real life, not your fantasy where people just run amok.

My Answer: In God's system, when one understands all sides, intelligence will pick the best choices. This might confuse some not far enough along. Clearly there is more for you to Discover.

So if one’s intelligence made the choice or murder or rape, that was the best choice?
Tell the judge “This might confuse some not far enough along. Clearly there is more for you to Discover.”
Only Bird123 knows, he has all the answers because he Discovered them.

Now is not the time to claim to have all the answers. There is always more to Discover. Those that claim to know all the answers reciting memorized holy books are Discovering very little until they look beyond. God is so much more than any book written by mankind.

Nobody is trying to put God in a box. Nobody is suggesting not looking beyond the holy books. There will always be things we do not know about God, more than we do know.

Given enough time and lessons, everyone will Discover Unconditional Love is not only the answer but is for everyone.

If they Discover this they make a grave error. I do not believe in Reincarnation so I believe time is short.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

My Answer: God has no messengers. Truth is Discovered through watching God's actions then working at understanding those actions.

Nobody sees God’s actions, all we can see are human actions.
So now you have declared that God has no Messengers. Unless you can prove that it is a bald assertion.

My Answer: Religions are all creations of mankind therefore they reflect mankind. If you blindly follow religions, you are not following God. You are following man.

So now you have declared that all religions are x. Unless you can prove that it is a bald assertion.
Anyone who blindly follows your belief in Discovery is not following God, he is following a man.

My Answer: First one studies God's actions. In this time-based causal universe God's actions can be seen. God hides nothing. When I acquired the understanding of God and what God is doing with people and this planet and universe, I receive a visit from God. God isn't handing out answers or commands. God places knowledge all around so it can be Discovered. It is up to each of us what we want to Discover.

You actually believe you received a visit from God?

Learning about a Spiritual Being can present problems of proof in a physical world. I only had beliefs until God showed up with my proof. If I never had it right, God would never have shown up to confirm my understanding was not beliefs but the real truth.

You actually believe God showed up with the real truth?

God's actions speak to Who God really is. God's actions can not be altered. It is the only sure positive way to Discover the Real Truth.

You have no idea Who God really is because the only way to know anything about God is through His Messengers.
You have no idea what God’s actions are, nobody does, not even the Messengers of God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

That’s fine with me, if it is for the good of humanity.

They are not mine because I did not write them. They are Baha’u’llah’s Writings.
I believe what Baha’u’llah wrote.

I never said they are not doing any good. They do much good for those who adhere to them.

Poof, they are gone, just like magic. You live in a fantasy world.

But how do you solve the problem? Discover!

All parents love their children, but good parents also have expectations. If the children don’t live up to those expectations there are consequences. It is no different for God. God has expectations and if we don’t live up to those expectations there are consequences.
All actions have consequences. That's real life, not your fantasy where people just run amok.

So if one’s intelligence made the choice or murder or rape, that was the best choice?
Tell the judge “This might confuse some not far enough along. Clearly there is more for you to Discover.”
Only Bird123 knows, he has all the answers because he Discovered them.

Nobody is trying to put God in a box. Nobody is suggesting not looking beyond the holy books. There will always be things we do not know about God, more than we do know.

If they Discover this they make a grave error. I do not believe in Reincarnation so I believe time is short.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

When one Discovers the best choices, it's not what one Believes are the best choices. It's what actually ARE the best choices. Come now. Is murder really the best choice? I have to have you Thinking better than that. Remember God is Big on what IS rather than beliefs.

You might believe your time is short, however what you believe does not matter. What actually IS will be the only thing that counts. You value beliefs way too much!! There is no time limit on learning.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Nobody sees God’s actions, all we can see are human actions.
So now you have declared that God has no Messengers. Unless you can prove that it is a bald assertion.

So now you have declared that all religions are x. Unless you can prove that it is a bald assertion.
Anyone who blindly follows your belief in Discovery is not following God, he is following a man.

You actually believe you received a visit from God?

You actually believe God showed up with the real truth?

You have no idea Who God really is because the only way to know anything about God is through His Messengers.
You have no idea what God’s actions are, nobody does, not even the Messengers of God.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

I do not ask nor want followers. Are you brainwashed into thinking one must follow? I point to where one can find God without following anyone. Why have you allowed others to convince you that you must follow? Are you not capable of anything on your own?? Do you really think God wants you to have crutches???

Why are you so afraid of God that you demand middlemen? Do you know that you already know God? God is not the Monster religions portrait.

I see you so afraid of God that you make all these rules that prevent you from taking any action on your part. Can you really see no action of God? Look in the mirror. You are an action of God. God's actions can be seen all over this place. God is hiding nothing!! Why would God hide then provide messengers? How can you even make sense of this?

Upon seeing an action of God, the hungry student starts to ask those million questions. Why did God make me? Why am I here? what is my purpose? Why does God make this world the way it is? Why is there suffering? How come we all don't have it made? Does God Love, hate, get angry, have wrath? How is God going to get everyone to get along in heaven after 1 lifetime? Is God really helpless under free will? What about Hell? What about religions? If God has a religion why are there so many different ones? Why does God do the things God does? And the questions should go on and on without end. When I find answers, I think up new questions. That's what a hungry student does!!

If all the physics of this world add up, so does everything about God!! A leopard does not change it's spots.

If God exists, then God can be found. The truth of the matter is that only the very fewest of people really want to find God. Religion isn't about finding God. That's why religion does not understand God at all.

The beauty of God's system is that it works on free will. If you do not want to find God, it's simple. You don't even have to look at all because everything is based on what each of us chooses to learn. I can point for those who desire, however no one's journey depends on me.

Clearly, finding God is not what you seek. I think this is a good time for you to search your soul and decide what you really want. Forget what everyone else wants. Walk your own Path!! I promise you God will not hate you for the choices you make and what you choose to learn.

Listen to the advise of others but always walk your own path. Life's lessons are best learned that way. Be who you must! It's a part of the plan!!

You never have to fear or worry about God. God is so far ahead that there is nothing that you could do that would hurt God. God will love you Unconditionally regardless of any choices you make. God will love you enough to teach you what the very best choices are regardless of how long it will take you to learn.

As for myself, I'm HAPPY. I can see great Intelligence not only at work , but behind everything in this world. It is truly a MASTERPIECE!!

Peel away all the noise and confusion and look within. Find out who you are and what you really want. From there, be True to yourself!! It is the best way!! It doesn't matter what everyone else chooses to do. It's what you choose to do that counts!! Stop walking on eggshells. You aren't going to get really good until you do.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

When one Discovers the best choices, it's not what one Believes are the best choices. It's what actually ARE the best choices.

The best choices are revealed in God's teachings and laws. People do not have to Discover that murder was not the best choice by committing murder.

Come now. Is murder really the best choice? I have to have you Thinking better than that. Remember God is Big on what IS rather than beliefs.

That's right, God is Big on what IS rather than your beliefs of what is.
That is why God reveals Laws that say "thou shalt not murder."

You might believe your time is short, however what you believe does not matter. What actually IS will be the only thing that counts. You value beliefs way too much!! There is no time limit on learning.

You might believe your time is not short, however what you believe does not matter. What actually IS will be the only thing that counts. You value your beliefs way too much!! There is a time limit on learning in this life although we can continue to learn in the next life, we won't be able to learn what we should have learned in this life.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not ask nor want followers.

Then why do you promulgate your belief system?

Are you not capable of anything on your own?? Do you really think God wants you to have crutches???

No, I believe that God wants us to believe in His Messenger for this day and adhere to His teachings and laws that her than to our own ego.

Why are you so afraid of God that you demand middlemen? Do you know that you already know God? God is not the Monster religions portrait.

I do not demand middlemen, they just show up and we cannot know anything about God without them.

I see you so afraid of God that you make all these rules that prevent you from taking any action on your part. Can you really see no action of God? Look in the mirror. You are an action of God. God's actions can be seen all over this place. God is hiding nothing!! Why would God hide then provide messengers? How can you even make sense of this?

I have already made sense of this and it makes sense. I am not an action of God, I am an action of my own free will. God's actions can never been seen. God hides everything except what he chooses to reveal through His Messengers.

Upon seeing an action of God, the hungry student starts to ask those million questions. Why did God make me? Why am I here? what is my purpose? Why does God make this world the way it is? Why is there suffering? How come we all don't have it made? Does God Love, hate, get angry, have wrath? How is God going to get everyone to get along in heaven after 1 lifetime? Is God really helpless under free will? What about Hell? What about religions?

Nobody ever sees God's actions since God is a mystery no mind can ever fathom. All we can know about God are some of his attributes that are reflected in the Messengers and in Creation and God's will for any age, as revealed to the Messenger.

If God has a religion why are there so many different ones? Why does God do the things God does? And the questions should go on and on without end. When I find answers, I think up new questions. That's what a hungry student does!!

The reason there are so many religions is because God reveals a new religion in every age, according to the needs of humanity in that age. The only answers as to what God does is in the religions, everything else is just your imagination.

If God exists, then God can be found. The truth of the matter is that only the very fewest of people really want to find God. Religion isn't about finding God. That's why religion does not understand God at all.

If God exists, then God can be found? Nobody has ever found God, not even His Messengers.

Religion is all about knowing God, nobody ever finds God.
You reject religion and that's why you do not understand God at all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Bird123]

Then why do you promulgate your belief system?

No, I believe that God wants us to believe in His Messenger for this day and adhere to His teachings and laws that her than to our own ego.

I do not demand middlemen, they just show up and we cannot know anything about God without them.

I have already made sense of this and it makes sense. I am not an action of God, I am an action of my own free will. God's actions can never been seen. God hides everything except what he chooses to reveal through His Messengers.

Nobody ever sees God's actions since God is a mystery no mind can ever fathom. All we can know about God are some of his attributes that are reflected in the Messengers and in Creation and God's will for any age, as revealed to the Messenger.

The reason there are so many religions is because God reveals a new religion in every age, according to the needs of humanity in that age. The only answers as to what God does is in the religions, everything else is just your imagination.

If God exists, then God can be found? Nobody has ever found God, not even His Messengers.

Religion is all about knowing God, nobody ever finds God.
You reject religion and that's why you do not understand God at all.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

Build those walls!

You make so many assumptions. I found God. I'm willing to bet others have as well. You make all these rules and walls for yourself. You limit yourself in ways you can even imagine. Why do you choose that for yourself?

That's what I see. It's very clear!!