Are Messianic Jews Christians?

[Teritos]

In my opinion, according to the Bible, they are not Christians. They still live in the old covenant, they circumcise themselves, they celebrate the Sabbath and they also keep other laws of Moses. They still live like a servant of God although the new covenant has made Christians children of God. They try to keep the law even though it is not possible. Many Messianic Jews do not even believe that Jesus is God. The funny thing is, some Messianic Jews themselves admit they are not Christians.

 

[John1.12]

In my opinion, according to the Bible, they are not Christians. They still live in the old covenant, they circumcise themselves, they celebrate the Sabbath and they also keep other laws of Moses. They still live like a servant of God although the new covenant has made Christians children of God. They try to keep the law even though it is not possible. Many Messianic Jews do not even believe that Jesus is God. The funny thing is, some Messianic Jews themselves admit they are not Christians.

Any one that has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit today is a Christian.

 

[Rival]

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes Jesus was the Jewish messiah and believes the Christian Testament is reliable is a Christian.

 

[rosends]

1. According to whom?
2. By what definition of various words?

 

[Teritos]

As far as I'm concerned, anyone who believes Jesus was the Jewish messiah and believes the Christian Testament is reliable is a Christian.

Well, even Paul condemns the Messianic Jews.
Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4

They do not really believe in the New Testament, and according to Paul's words, they are clearly not Christians. It is not I who say it, but the apostles.

 

[Rival]

Well, even Paul condemns the Messianic Jews.
Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you have yourselves circumcised, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who has himself circumcised, that he is obligated to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by the Law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4

They do not really believe in the New Testament, and according to Paul's words, they are clearly not Christians. It is not I who say it, but the apostles.

They evidently have a different interpretation. You're better off asking MJs themselves.

 

[Teritos]

They evidently have a different interpretation. You're better off asking MJs themselves.

Paul's words are clear enough. And I have spoken with Messianic Jews, they themselves testify that one must keep the law. According to them, the law is still active, you have to circumcise yourself and keep the law. This is clearly against the teaching of the NT, as I said, partly they themselves admit not to be Christians.

 

[Teritos]

1. According to whom?

According to the New Testament.

2. By what definition of various words?

What do you mean?

 

[Rival]

Paul's words are clear enough. And I have spoken with Messianic Jews, they themselves testify that one must keep the law. According to them, the law is still active, you have to circumcise yourself and keep the law. This is clearly against the teaching of the NT, as I said, partly they themselves admit not to be Christians.

I'm not sure what this has to do with non-Christians or non-MJs. It's like starting a thread asking non-Jews if they think Reconstructionist Jews are 'real Jews'. It's not our argument to have.

 

[Teritos]

I'm not sure what this has to do with non-Christians or non-MJs. It's like starting a thread asking non-Jews if they think Reconstructionist Jews are 'real Jews'. It's not our argument to have.

The question was whether they are Christians from a biblical point of view, and they are simply not. Just believing that Jesus is the Messiah does not make someone a Christian, even Muslims believe that.

 

[rosends]

According to the New Testament.

OK, in that case, I have no idea.

What do you mean?

there are a variety of definitions for "Christian" "Messianic Jew" and even "Jew." Until you define your terms, you run the risk of arguing at cross purposes.

 

[Rival]

The question was whether they are Christians from a biblical point of view, and they are simply not. Just believing that Jesus is the Messiah does not make someone a Christian, even Muslims believe that.

That's why I added the bit about belief in the Christian Testament.

If we had to go any deeper than that, we'd be into the Christians-arguing-over-who-is-a-Christian-as-they-have-been-doing-for-the-past-few-millennia territory. It's a fruitless debate. Non-Christians aren't going to be judging by the same standards as someone within a certain Christian Church.

 

[Teritos]

there are a variety of definitions for "Christian" "Messianic Jew" and even "Jew." Until you define your terms, you run the risk of arguing at cross purposes.

There is only one definition for the term Christian, and a Christian is someone who lives according to the new covenant. If even Paul, who saw Jesus, condemned such, then that is clear enough. These Messianic Jews are nothing new, they already existed in the time of Paul and he distanced himself from them.

 

[PureX]

Anyone of any religion, or of no religion at all, can be a Christian. Just as anyone of any religion, or lack thereof, can be anti-Christian. Christ is not a religion, so we don't have to adopt a religion to embody the revelation and promise of Christ, or reject it.

 

[Teritos]

That's why I added the bit about belief in the Christian Testament.

They do not believe in the New Testament, would they believe in it, would they also live in the new covenant or not? Muslims also believe in Jesus, try to keep the law but do not live in the new covenant. There are Muslim groups that even believe in the crucifixion but not in the New Covenant.

If we had to go any deeper than that, we'd be into the Christians-arguing-over-who-is-a-Christian-as-they-have-been-doing-for-the-past-few-millennia territory. It's a fruitless debate. Non-Christians aren't going to be judging by the same standards as someone within a certain Christian Church.

But if the Bible itself, in this case Paul, says they are not Christians, should we not accept that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Paul's words are clear enough. And I have spoken with Messianic Jews, they themselves testify that one must keep the law. According to them, the law is still active, you have to circumcise yourself and keep the law. This is clearly against the teaching of the NT, as I said, partly they themselves admit not to be Christians.

According to the New Testament Jesus said that the law is still active. Gentiles were allowed not to follow some of the minor laws of the OT. They could have barbecue and not cut off the tip of their richard. That was about it.

 

[Teritos]

According to the New Testament Jesus said that the law is still active.

Can you give the verse? I am very sure you are wrong.

 

[Rival]

They do not believe in the New Testament

This is not for you to determine.

But if the Bible itself, in this case Paul, says they are not Christians, should we not accept that?

We should accept that they have a different interpretation of Paul's writing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Can you give the verse? I am very sure you are wrong.

Nope. I am correct. Mathew 5 17-20:

"17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

[Teritos]

This is not for you to determine.

Okay, Messianic Jews, Muslims, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Bahaites are all Christians now. They all believe in Jesus and in the crucifixion. All other Christians have misunderstood the Bible.

We should accept that they have a different interpretation of Paul's writing.

Of course, in these clear verses you can interpret something else.