6 Weeks

[The Hammer]

The Governor Of Texas Has Signed A Law That Bans Abortion As Early As 6 Weeks

"Most people don't even know if they are pregnant at six weeks... WTF." (My wife)

"The Texas law effectively prohibits any abortion after around six weeks of pregnancy, before many women are even aware that they are pregnant.

The bill, which takes effect in September, makes no exception for pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest but does include a rare provision that allows individual citizens to sue anyone they believe may have been involved in helping a pregnant individual violate the ban. The provision cannot be used against pregnant people, but reproductive rights advocates warn it can be used to target abortion providers and abortion-rights activists."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Governor Of Texas Has Signed A Law That Bans Abortion As Early As 6 Weeks

"Most people don't even know if they are pregnant at six weeks... WTF." (My wife)

"The Texas law effectively prohibits any abortion after around six weeks of pregnancy, before many women are even aware that they are pregnant.

The bill, which takes effect in September, makes no exception for pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest but does include a rare provision that allows individual citizens to sue anyone they believe may have been involved in helping a pregnant individual violate the ban. The provision cannot be used against pregnant people, but reproductive rights advocates warn it can be used to target abortion providers and abortion-rights activists."

Okay. I understand the justification if the baby will die anyway, but not because the mother was raped. I don't agree with abortion whatsoever, but legal justifications I'd say maybe that's too early for any ethical questions to arise. If I played devil's advocate.

 

[The Hammer]

Okay. I understand the justification if the baby will die anyway, but not because the mother was raped. I don't agree with abortion whatsoever, but legal justifications I'd say maybe that's too early for any ethical questions to arise. If I played devil's advocate.

Wait, so if I raped a woman, she should keep the baby if she gets pregnant? That's what I read here. Who gets custody when the father gets out of prison in 5-7 years, does he get custody, visitation, join in on family functions; as the Father they now have rights, right?

The good news about not agreeing with abortion under any circumstances, is you don't ever need to get one, under any circumstances. But to legislate that choice away from a Dr and his patient, is a mistake.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

makes no exception for pregnancies that are the result of rape or incest but does include a rare provision that allows individual citizens to sue anyone they believe may have been involved in helping a pregnant individual violate the ban.

That is heinous.
Again, I never want to hear another ****ing Republican, or Conservative, harp and whine and moan about the government coming between a patient and doctor. They love to plant themselves between the two even as they deride "evil socialist medicine" that will inevitably lead to what they themselves have done.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Wait, so if I raped a woman, she should keep the baby if she gets pregnant? That's what I read here. Who gets custody when the father gets out of prison in 5-7 years, does he get custody, visitation, join in on family functions; as the Father they now have rights, right?

The good news about not agreeing with abortion under any circumstances, is you don't ever need to get one, under any circumstances. But to legislate that choice away from a Dr and his patient, is a mistake.

Some states have actually tried (and possibly succeeded, it has been awhile since I've looked into this specific issue) to ensure rapists have parent rights of any children they father while raping a woman. That should never happen. It shouldn't happen either that a woman is forced to carry a pregnancy from rape. She shouldn't have to have her life upended (more than it already has been) because some guy attacked her and made her pregnant.
More and more, they really are acting like an American Taliban (no hyperbole either, they use Stand Your Ground laws to butcher with impunity over petty crap that shouldn't have even turned violent).

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wait, so if I raped a woman, she should keep the baby if she gets pregnant? That's what I read here. Who gets custody when the father gets out of prison in 5-7 years, does he get custody, visitation, join in on family functions; as the Father they now have rights, right?

The good news about not agreeing with abortion under any circumstances, is you don't ever need to get one, under any circumstances. But to legislate that choice away from a Dr and his patient, is a mistake.

If a woman is raped, the baby can still live regardless who takes care of him or her-adoption, the other father or mother, or so have you. It's not forcing the mother to do anything. Many states let the mother give the child to the hospital I think within a week or month after pregnancy. So, I don't how killing a growing child (case in point) overrides just giving the baby to those who can take care of it.

Edit. Here's more about it Birth Mother Parental Rights - Texas Adoption | Adoption Choices of Texas

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Back to coat hanger abortions.
Third world country with an expensive handbag indeed.

I hate this place. @Quagmire you were right. Load all these republicans into a canon and fire them out of the country.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

If a woman is raped, the baby can still live regardless who takes care of him or her-adoption, the other father or mother, or so have you. It's not forcing the mother to do anything. Many states let the mother give the child to the hospital I think within a week or month after pregnancy. So, I don't how killing a growing child (case in point) overrides just giving the baby to those who can take care of it.

Edit. Here's more about it Birth Mother Parental Rights - Texas Adoption | Adoption Choices of Texas

For a lot of women pregnancy and childbirth isn't something that just happens and then is over with no consequence. Childbirth can change your body forever, and can cause mental health crisis levels of depression in women who haven't even experienced the trauma of rape. Forcing a woman to undergo pregnancy and childbirth after a rape is putting her in serious jeopardy, both from complications arising from stress, and the increased likelihood of suicide from postpartum depression.
No state should be able to compel a woman to do this. It should be her decision to continue or not continue the pregnancy.

 

[The Hammer]

If a woman is raped, the baby can still live regardless who takes care of him or her-adoption, the other father or mother, or so have you. It's not forcing the mother to do anything. Many states let the mother give the child to the hospital I think within a week or month after pregnancy. So, I don't how killing a growing child (case in point) overrides just giving the baby to those who can take care of it.

Edit. Here's more about it Birth Mother Parental Rights - Texas Adoption | Adoption Choices of Texas

You're still forcing them to carry that constant reminder around for 9 months, then deal with the emotional turmoil and danger of birth, on top of the emotional and physical turmoil of now giving that child up to hospital, family, adoption.

All because you specifically (legislatures) think it's wrong. When what is wrong, is taking away people's options to handle their own affairs. Like what @ADigitalArtist said, we are slowly ticking the clock back into back alley coat hangar abortions.

If you think the danger, pain and harm that comes along with that is justified as the woman is "choosing" the fetuses death over life, then admit that.

 

[MatthewA]

Thank you for the information.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Woah. All I said was I don't agree with abortions and there are alternative ways to give up parental rights of the child instead of ending its chance to live. Nothing political. I'm sure there are reasonable justifications. Rape just doesn't seem like a good justification as would the terminal health of the child if to compare the two.

You're still forcing them to carry that constant reminder around for 9 months, then deal with the emotional turmoil and danger of birth, on top of the emotional and physical turmoil of now giving that child up to hospital, family, adoption.

How? It's the mother's and doctor's choice. If the mother decides to keep the baby full term and give it away then I am all for that. If she decides to abort cause she doesn't want to carry the child, I disagree with that.

That doesn't mean I want the mother to be in pain and all of that. That's silly. It is literally her choice. Disagreeing doesn't mean I'm holding her down.

All because you specifically (legislatures) think it's wrong. When what is wrong, is taking away people's options to handle their own affairs. Like what @ADigitalArtist said, we are slowly ticking the clock back into back alley coat hangar abortions.

My view is an ethical point of view not political. I see some reasoning in the justifications-rape isn't one of them. See above.

If you think the danger, pain and harm that comes along with that is justified as the woman is "choosing" the fetuses death over life, then admit that.

I honestly don't know what you're saying. It does sound like you're a. putting your emotions on anti-abortionist in politics on me and b. maybe you have a personal investment in this. I don't know. My grandmother tried to use a hanger to abort and my mother did abort, so, it really does get to me but not too personal as other subjects.

You're taking this too seriously. I don't go around hanging signs up saying "stop abortions" or any of that, um, mess. I saw Catholics do that years ago and was very uncomfortable with that. Its one thing to disagree, it's a whole another to have a religious riot over it. As with the law, long as its the woman's choice. That doesn't mean I agree. It just means I don't put my morals in politics.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

It just means I don't put my morals in politics.

You might not, and that's fine. But this thread is about legislators who are. So it's pretty reasonable we'd be talking about abortion as related to political action. These women don't get to make these choices for themselves anymore, whether you agree or disagree with the choice they'd make.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You might not, and that's fine. But this thread is about legislators who are. So it's pretty reasonable we'd be talking about abortion as related to political action. These women don't get to make these choices for themselves anymore, whether you agree or disagree with the choice they'd make.

Here are my views after reading the article again.

I agree with the bill in the part where abortions are illegal after the first fetal heartbeat
I do agree that rape and incest aren't good justifications for abortion
As for how to make both sides happy, I'm not sure.

 

[VoidCat]

Here's what could happen if you outlaw surgical abortion and women look towards other means like plant ingestion: Herbal infusions used for induced abortion - PubMed

Abortion occurred in 23 cases after the ingestion of parsley, ruda, Carachipita, celery, Cedron, francisco alvarez, floripon, espina colorada. Out of the 23 cases, 15 involved the only the ingestion of plants, 4 cases used injected drugs (presumably hormones), and in 4 cases there was associated self-inflicted instrumental manipulation. Multiple organ system failure occurred in those patients who had ingested ruda (alone or in combination with parsley or fennel), Carachipita, arnica, or bardana. Deaths occurred in one case of Carachipita ingestion and in 4 cases of ruda ingestion (2 cases of ruda alone, 2 cases of ruda with parsley and fennel). Self-inflicted instrumental manipulations were found in 4 of the patients with multiple organ system failure and in one of those who died. The results of this report are not conclusive, but it appears that the ingestion of plants to induce abortion involves the risk of severe morbidity and mortality.

 

[sun rise]

The right LOVES big, intrusive government telling doctors what they can do, teachers what they can teach, telling voters that their votes will be suppressed and rejected, telling business what they can do and so forth.

The right hates solving real problems for real people.

This is one example.

As far as abortion goes, I don't like it but think it's up to a woman to choose before viability. I also am totally in favor of real health care including for pregnant women, job training/education for women, day care and everything else that's a barrier that leads a woman to feel she has no choice but abortion.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

What difference if there is a heartbeat? If life begins at conception then any abortion is killing a new life.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Here are my views after reading the article again.

I agree with the bill in the part where abortions are illegal after the first fetal heartbeat
I do agree that rape and incest aren't good justifications for abortion
As for how to make both sides happy, I'm not sure.

I would have an abortion regardless of if you or the law agreed with it, were I to get pregnant today. (Which would be pretty surprising since I use multiple birth controls).

 

[The Hammer]

The right LOVES big, intrusive government telling doctors what they can do, teachers what they can teach, telling voters that their votes will be suppressed and rejected, telling business what they can do and so forth.

The right hates solving real problems for real people.

This is one example.

As far as abortion goes, I don't like it but think it's up to a woman to choose before viability. I also am totally in favor of real health care including for pregnant women, job training/education for women, day care and everything else that's a barrier that leads a woman to feel she has no choice but abortion.

I'm was trying to type to you but let's just say after 6 or saw misspellings and **** ups, I give up responding due to the fact that I can't type worth a dn on my phone

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I would have an abortion regardless of if you or the law agreed with it, were I to get pregnant today. (Which would be pretty surprising since I use multiple birth controls).

Shrugs. I'm not the law. If I were in that position, I wouldn't know what the middle ground would be because I don't like taking sides that would affect other people. But rape, no. I can't see that when there are other ways to take care of the child without the mother needed be responsible. Undue burden for 9 months. I just can't say take the child so the mother won't suffer. I value life (start, process, living, and end thereof) a lot for various reasons that if I were in that position I would have to have someone else make the decision for me.

I'm not against birth control, but I do agree with religious... if you don't want a baby, don't have sex. Kind of like if you don't want to get into a car crash, don't drive the car. Wear protection or a seatbelt, but since birth controls don't hurt, what can I say. Even if I flew that direction, I couldn't take them. It interferes with my meds.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Shrugs. I'm not the law. If I were in that position, I wouldn't know what the middle ground would be because I don't like taking sides that would affect other people. But rape, no. I can't see that when there are other ways to take care of the child without the mother needed be responsible. Undue burden for 9 months. I just can't say take the child so the mother won't suffer. I value life (start, process, living, and end thereof) a lot for various reasons that if I were in that position I would have to have someone else make the decision for me.

I'm not against birth control, but I do agree with religious... if you don't want a baby, don't have sex. Kind of like if you don't want to get into a car crash, don't drive the car. Wear protection or a seatbelt, but since birth controls don't hurt, what can I say. Even if I flew that direction, I couldn't take them. It interferes with my meds.

I have a condition as part of a hormone disorder which makes childbirth high risk for me. But sex is a natural and healthy part of relationships and I'm not going to stop having sex just because it's possible I could get pregnant. I would sterilize myself if it weren't expensive, often not covered by insurance, and often denied to women who don't have children for fear of later lawsuit.
If I get pregnant, I'm having an abortion. I won't feel guilty and won't be guilted for it. Especially since I don't consider a human fetus any more valuable than a chicken. Less so, since the chicken has higher capability to think, feel, etc. I would sooner mandate vegetarianism than mandate bans on abortion.