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What was the Death of Jesus about?

Colt

Well-Known Member
As I set out in the OP, it apparently was essential that he be killed, since to be killed was his declared mission. Why that should be so is my question.
You're a first century Jew in the holylands. There's one more player in the religion industry who is not a civil or military or religious leader of the Jews, and has never been anointed by the Jewish priesthood ─ in other words had none of the qualifications of a messiah. Why on earth would you notice him, think he was different from or better than the other players?
What greater purposes, exactly, and WHY did they require bloodshed when God is omnipotent and benevolent?
Christianity is a religion about Jesus that developed after Jesus left. The Gospel changed.

Jesus wasn't the Jewish Messiah but his coming which had been foretold by seers for ages, before Judaism and Israelites, was the basis for the development of the concept of a "Jewish Messiah". The problem was the Jews expectations.

In the Son we have a God who has experienced what it is like to live the life of one of his own created beings. The willingness to experience death also endears believers to him.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
"Messiah" means "anointed" (as does its translation into Greek, "khristos", Christ. To be a messiah you were to be a civil, military or religious leader of the Jews and anointed by the Jewish priesthood. (There are also examples of the title being conferred as an honorific for very distinguished foreigners.) Jesus was none of these things ─ so why would anyone think he was a messiah?
But that doesn't answer my question, why was bloodshed required when an omnipotent benevolent God is involved?
Mebbe ─ anyway, that's the most promising suggestion so far.

I suspect this argument involving language and definitions is more TACTIC than
enlightenment.
Do you believe in 'hell'?
Sure, 'hell' means a bad situation, a hot day, a place you don't want to be in.
So that's what 'hell' meant in the bible? No, we have multiple meanings for a given
word.
Same as heaven, virgin, king etc..

Same with Messiah. Jesus was not 'anointed' in the sense of pouring oil over Him.
He was spiritually anointed. In fact most of the titles assumed by Jesus were
spiritualized one, ie 'our great high priest' or the 'lion of the tribe of Judah' or the
'lamb of God' or 'king' or 'son of David' etc..

In that Jesus gave His life should create in the hearer/reader a sense of the
seriousness of the message and a sense of the depth of His giving.
 

PruePhillip

Well-Known Member
Being an independent student of Jesus, my answer is that Jesus had to die because he was simply incarnated in a mortal flesh as mine. Isn't it obvious?!

In which case He could have died of old age. Maybe even a very very old age.
But he came to be the 'lamb slain from the foundation of the world.' His death
was not dying in His sleep, or a sudden death but the death of the cross. This
emphasizes how much this man suffered for us, and the extent of the sin He
bore in His own body upon the cross.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Because, my friend, it is not God and/or Christ that must “do”; it is Man
Do what, exactly? And if Man must do, what's the point of Jesus dying ─ indeed, setting out determined to die, and succeeding?
Christ came into worldliness, not to “do”, but for Man to encounter and experience Christ’s selflessness.
According to the gospels, Jesus could be pretty selfish, and was. Think of his hostility (in all four gospels) towards his mother in particular and family in general; or his lethal sulkiness with the unobliging olive tree.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Being an independent student of Jesus, my answer is that Jesus had to die because he was simply incarnated in a mortal flesh as mine. Isn't it obvious?!
I'm referring to his determination to die, and his refusal to avoid death, and his success in getting himself crucified. That's why I ask, for what?
the way by which Jesus was captured, judged and died on the cross has achieved many crucial goals [...]

[1] It was crucial mainly for his Apostles and first Disciples who used being Jews. They needed to witness for sure that Jesus death does coincide with the Jewish prophecies they used hearing of.
There are no prophecies appropriate for Jesus in the Tanakh; and Jesus has none of the qualifications of a Jewish messiah.
[2] Without this clear death, on the cross and in front of all Jewish and Roman people in Jerusalem, his Apostles and first Disciples wouldn't be real impressed by seeing his living flesh again after it.
The NT evidence for the resurrection is of abysmal quality, whereas a miracle requires evidence of extraordinary quality. That is, the resurrection is unhistorical, there being no credible reason to think otherwise.
[3] Jesus let the scenario of his death show the world very clearly that not only his flesh is dead on the cross but also his message as well.
Why was his death necessary? If God is omnipotent, God can get any effect [he] wishes without bloodshed. And sacrificing [his] own son to [him]self is an entirely barbaric notion, no?
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Christianity is a religion about Jesus that developed after Jesus left. The Gospel changed.

Jesus wasn't the Jewish Messiah but his coming which had been foretold by seers for ages, before Judaism and Israelites, was the basis for the development of the concept of a "Jewish Messiah". The problem was the Jews expectations.
You're saying the Tanakh is not their holy book? That having written it they couldn't read it correctly? The trouble with that argument is that the Jews were overwhelmingly unimpressed with Jesus, and Christianity's successes were amongst the pagans ─ which is how come Constantine gave them such a boost.
 

KerimF

Active Member
In which case He could have died of old age. Maybe even a very very old age.
But he came to be the 'lamb slain from the foundation of the world.' His death
was not dying in His sleep, or a sudden death but the death of the cross. This
emphasizes how much this man suffered for us, and the extent of the sin He
bore in His own body upon the cross.

You may be right but ;) it was another miracle that the powerful rich class, Jewish and Roman in His time, couldn't get rid of Him in a relatively short period of time when His message became rather clear to most people around Him. And Jesus needed just 3 years to reveal all spiritual truths that spiritual humans need to know about life. Jesus brought me what I may call Science of Reality... but this is off topic here.

Now, if, by a miracle, someone (including I) is allowed to repeat the crucial natural truths about life and the real world, clearly and openly as Jesus did, the world (actually, all formal/ruling systems in the world, including the Christian ones) won't let him stay alive more than a couple of days.

Please mote that I am not here to convince anyone about anything. I am just glad that Jesus was able to save me from my greatest weakness, ignorance, with which every human baby (including I) is born.
Since I am a mere independent powerless man who just gains his daily bread and of those who depend on him, no one in the world can have a good reason to listen to me to any level. And if it happened I tried to be rich and famous (by selling my soul and taking advantage of my professional knowledge in electronics, in programming and data communications), I would be interested only in gaining more and more money so that my flesh could live almost every pleasant sensation which is pre-programmed in its living cells. But selling my soul (actually, my time and will should be included in the deal) was always out of question no matter how good the offered price is (in the form of money or else!).
 
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George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Given an historical Jesus, that's a live possibility, yes. But it doesn't account for the way the story is presented in the gospels, or in particular what seem to me to be arbitrary features and inconsistencies in those stories, which is what I hope this thread will illuminate.
Except for perhaps the most conservative Christians, most of us have moved past the Gospel inconsistencies and non-accordance with modern reasoning. I was just trying to present the sensible approach of presenting Jesus as a real and advanced spiritual person who was probably not fully understood and appreciated by some dominant members of the culture a couple millennia ago (official Bible consolidators among them).

If you are going to hold the full Bible as your bible (pun intended), then you will not see eye-to-eye with conservative Christian doctrine. I have already accepted that. I do not hold the conservative Christian doctrinal view as very important in forming my personal beliefs.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I suspect this argument involving language and definitions is more TACTIC than
enlightenment.
So you think anyone can correctly be called President of the United States? Pope? Mayor of Castorbridge?
Same with Messiah. Jesus was not 'anointed' in the sense of pouring oil over Him.
That is, on the messiah scale his score was zero.
He was spiritually anointed.
The NT says nothing of the kind. And as I've mentioned, a messiah was a leader, rescuer, liberator of the Jews; Jesus was never any of those things; instead he unlocked the door to two millennia of Christian antisemitism.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you are going to hold the full Bible as your bible (pun intended), then you will not see eye-to-eye with conservative Christian doctrine. I have already accepted that. I do not hold the conservative Christian doctrinal view as very important in forming my personal beliefs.
It's not my theology I'm asking about in this thread. I simply don't understand why Jesus had to die to achieve anything an omnipotent God might want.
 

Colt

Well-Known Member
You're saying the Tanakh is not their holy book? That having written it they couldn't read it correctly? The trouble with that argument is that the Jews were overwhelmingly unimpressed with Jesus, and Christianity's successes were amongst the pagans ─ which is how come Constantine gave them such a boost.
There were and are differing schools of thought among the Jews about their expected deliver. If you read the basis for for their varying concepts in the scriptures you will see that its not black and white. The kingdom of Jesus is spiritual, had the Jews interpreted it that way then they may have been more open.
 

Fallen Prophet

Well-Known Member
I'll give it a try - but you've prbably heard it all before.
WHY was it necessary for Jesus to die?
The Lord Jesus Christ was the only Being ever to walk the Earth who had the ability to die (inherited from His mortal mother) and also complete control of His own life (inherited from His immoral Father).

Therefore - He could die whenever He chose - completely independent from outside sources. He could still be hanging from the cross today had He so chosen.

The reason that the Lord Jesus Christ had to die in order to fulfill the Plan of God was because He needed to overcome it in a glorious bodily Resurrection.

All Mankind became subject to physical and spiritual death when Adam and Eve partook of the fruit and were expelled from the Garden.

Both of these deaths became obstacles that needed to be overcome in order for Mankind to return to live with God.

Spiritual death (i.e. "sin") can be repented of because the sufferings of the Lord Jesus Christ. He literally took upon Himself all the punishments of our sins. With that - we can eventually be forgiven depending on our faith in Him, obedience to His commands, ability to resist temptation and overcome our sinful desires.

Physical death - however- is something that no one could ever overcome. It was an insurmountable obstacle. An endless gulf that could never be traversed.

Therefore - the Lord Jesus Christ "gave up the ghost" - because nothing in the world could have killed Him - and He did this so that He could rise up again in a glorious bodily Resurrection.

His Resurrection "broke the bands of death" - or rather - caused an unconditional effect upon all Mankind. They became inheritors of the Resurrection.

Just like Adam's actions made all Mankind the inheritors of death - Christ's victory over death caused the universal effect of the Resurrection upon all Mankind.

One Man caused Death and another overcame Death - in order to bring Mankind back into the presence of God.
What could the death of Jesus achieve that an almighty God could not have achieved without bloodshed, just with one snap of those omnipotent fingers?
People often claim that omnipotence means that God can do anything - which is and is not the case.

God is unwilling to do anything that goes against His nature. He will not do anything unlawful or evil.

People try to claim that this means that God is limited or that He is not omnipotent - which leads me to ask - "If you could do whatever you wanted to do (i.e. "be omnipotent") - would you start by doing things that you don't want to do or the things that you do want to do?"

God is perfectly good and lawful - therefore He does not want to do anything contrary to His nature.

Therefore - since He is a perfect and incorruptible Being - He is unable to become corruptible (i.e. "die") - He is ever living.

This is one of the reasons why the Lord Jesus Christ was given as a sacrifice for sin - He was just as much mortal as immortal - His spirit was perfect but His body was subject to suffering and death.

In order to triumph over the effects of the Fall - God needed to place Himself betwixt the consequences of the Law - in between mercy and justice.

The Law demanded justice - which condemned us all - but mercy also needed to be extended in order to save any of us.

The Lord Jesus Christ - even though He lived a sinless life and therefore was justified by the Law - took upon Himself all the punishments of the Law on our behalf.

This means that the Law had been justly dealt with - the price had been paid - and the Lord used His position as the inheritor of our debt to set His own terms of repentance and forgiveness.

And since God Himself could not die in order to overcome the effects of the Fall - and it would have none effect even if He could because He was not of the family of Adam - the Lord Jesus Christ inherited the effects of the Fall and overcame them - both by being sinless and by raising Himself from the dead.

It was through the Lord Jesus Christ that both God and Man could come to terms with the Law - with both justice sated and mercy extended.
WHAT did Jesus’ death actually achieve? What, specifically, was different afterwards, that wasn’t so before?
The New Testament claims that immediately after the Lord Jesus Christ rose from the dead "many saints arose".

The death of the Lord Jesus Christ brought about His Resurrection - which caused the faithful who lived before Him to also be Resurrected and ensures that all Mankind will also be Resurrected one day.

His death and subsequent Resurrection allows all of us to stand before God again one day - to be judged of our works.

Without the Resurrection - no judgment could take place and all of Mankind would be forced to flee from God's presence - because nothing corruptible can withstand His presence.
Since God had made [his] covenant with the Jews, and was the God of the Jewish nation, and the only God, and had never needed an intermediary, why would God suddenly need an intermediary in the first century CE?
I believe that YVHV - the God of Israel - was the Lord Jesus Christ - and that He had been acting as a intermediary for the Father since before the foundations of the Earth had been laid.

This was necessary in order to bring about the eventual immortality and eternal life of Man.

Any and all correspondence between God and Man had been accomplished by the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

MatthewA

Active Member
Why couldn't God accomplish reconciling the world unto [Him]self without bloodshed? Were I omnipotent I dare say I could do that four or five times before breakfast.

Hello Blu2 thank you for your comment.

Its okay, just curious what you mean by this. I guess He couldn't do it because it was mans mistake: and the Word of God came in to correct what man had messed up which was once had in the Garden.

Now anyone can have a relationship with God if they believe on the Lord Jesus Christ who paid and was able to pay for all peoples sins.

Which means all sins are and have been paid for but the fact people remain in unbelief doesn't allow them to be spiritually reborn so people remain dead spiritually however ~ These are the things that come down to the bible only, and not everyone believes in the bible, or they have trouble understanding it, rather than accepting it, and looking for understanding : These are some of my own thoughts on the matter, of the questioning of why couldn't God do it himself, using scriptures.

According to the bible God is spirit (John 4:24)
So Jesus Christ was the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:13-15)
Adam and Eve sinned ~ Everyone inherited spiritual death - (Genesis 2:17)
Jesus Came to restore what Adam and Eve had lost (John 3:1-21 born again)
Humankind - and the flesh vs the spirit (Galatians 5:19-25)
Jesus Christ and his act of obedience (allows many who have faith to be made right with God through being justified by faith) (Romans 5:1-6)
Jesus Christ is the atoning sacrifice for our sins ~ not only our but the whole world (1 John 2:2)
Believers are baptized by Jesus Christ (Matthew 3:13-17) - by the spirit because of Jesus Christ and what He had done (paying for all the world sins)
God reconciled the world unto himself through Christ ~ No longer counting peoples sins against them (2 Corinthians 5:19)

So that now (in todays world) anyone who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ can become a child of God (John 1:12). Through the Lord Jesus Christ any person who is a believer today can have an open and free relationship with God. (Philippians 1:9 praying + growing in knowledge- spirit)(Colossians 1:9 praying + growing knowledge - spirit)(1 Peter 5:7 God cares for you)

Believers receive the holy spirit: Holy Spirit is Teacher? Bible Thoughts/Debate? : That helps them, and produces fruits of love: (Galatians 5:22-25) (Galatians 5:1-20 - Flesh (Sin) vs Spirit) (Hebrews 11:6 - Faith pleases God) (Romans 5:1-5 Justified by faith ~ Made right with God - have peace with God) (Romans 12:1-5 - Renewed in mind/Faith).

That is all that is made know to me, but would suggest taking a gander at the bible in what it has to say about these things and not believe me, cause it is possible for me to be wrong, and am sometimes wrong.​

Though some many not believe God created adam or eve, or created anything in the earth or whatever, that is your own choice whatever is you believe, though will let you know what some of the bible does say and a person has to decide for themselves whether or not the freely given promises are true and if there is any truth found in the Lord Jesus Christ (Colossians 1:13-14).

Thank you for you time.
 
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George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
It's not my theology I'm asking about in this thread. I simply don't understand why Jesus had to die to achieve anything an omnipotent God might want.
And the answer is: He Didn't

You are never going to accord conservative Christian dogma with modern reasoning and I'm sure you already realize that for yourself.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
the death of Jesus did not bring about the immediate abolishment of death. The promised changes take place after God has removed Satan the devil. Once God removes disobedient mankind and all his enemies, human and spiritual, then he will bring in a new world that can heal and be restored to what he originally purposed.
The book of Revelation speaks of that time and it foretells
Revelation 21:3-4 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them.+ 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes,+ and death will be no more,+ neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore.+ The former things have passed away.”
OK, so those who have died and will die until this event are actually dead now?

It makes me wonder why God created Satan in the first place. It sounds as if God just wanted the drama to entertain it, or it' doesn't know what it's doing and is trying to fix creation as it goes along, and still not doing a good job of it.



perfection does not mean people were incapable of disobedience.
Sure it does. If you are a perfect being created by a perfect God, and God has rules it set for this perfect being to obey, part of your perfection is to be in complete agreement and conjunction with the Creator.

Now what could be the case is that an imperfect God created a perfect being and there would be incompatibility. But obviously that doesn't work given the details of the story. It's more a case of an imperfect od created beings incapable of obedience.


If that were the case then we would not have free will. We would be preprogrammed like robots.
No it doesn't. This is a typical Christian response but it's incorrect. Look at anyone who is losing weight and they need to have the discipline to follow a strict diet. They aren't perfect but they have developed the mental discipline to restist the temptations. Buddhist monks are very disciplined through meditation and practices. These people still have free will but are just disciplined enough to resist. Adam and Eve were created without adequate discipline to resist temptation. Far from perfect wouldn't you agree?


God created mankind with decision making ability. Adam and eve chose to misuse that free will but millions have proved that they can use their decision making ability in the right way and continue to remain obedient to God. Angles have remained obedient, Jesus remained obedient. Christs followers remained obedient even in their imperfect state.
It was a set up. If a God really wanted to create beings that were obedient to its rules don;t you think they would have been like Buddhist monks and chosen wisely to obey? Plus God put the temptation in the Garden itself, it knew what it was doing. It knew A&E were not capable of resisting the temptation. They are not to blame for being created naive and without adequate knowledge and wisdom. What was the forbidden fruit? Knowledge. The very thing that might have allowed them to make a better decision. It was all a trap. And they get the blame for being designed to fail.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What was the death of Jesus about?

Jesus, according to the gospels, sets out, not on a suicide mission (meaning a very dangerous mission), but on a mission to die, a seeking of death, a literal suicide.

In Mark he puts it on the table right near the start:

Mark 2:20 The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in that day.​

and at the end he doesn’t take the midnight special camel train out of Jerusalem to points east, but deliberately avoids every chance to escape:

Mark 14:33 And he took with him Peter and James and John, and began to be greatly distressed and troubled. 34 And he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch." 35 And going a little farther, he fell on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him. 36 And he said, "Abba, Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt."

Matthew 26:18 He said, "Go into the city to a certain one, and say to him, 'The Teacher says, My time is at hand; I will keep the passover at your house with my disciples.'"

Matthew 26:29 “I tell you I shall not drink again of this fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

Matthew 26:38 Then he said to them, "My soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me." 39 And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, "My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Luke 22:22 For the Son of man goes as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom he is betrayed!"

Luke 22:42 "Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."​

The tone in John is different, but the determination to die is still foremost:

John 17:4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do; 5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.

John 17:13 But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves.​

I've never understood what's supposed to be going on. I'd be grateful for coherent answers to three

The first question is:
WHY was it necessary for Jesus to die?

What could the death of Jesus achieve that an almighty God could not have achieved without bloodshed, just with one snap of those omnipotent fingers?

The second question is:
WHAT did Jesus’ death actually achieve? What, specifically, was different afterwards, that wasn’t so before?

The third question is:
Since God had made [his] covenant with the Jews, and was the God of the Jewish nation, and the only God, and had never needed an intermediary,
why would God suddenly need an intermediary in the first century CE?

Grateful for illumination.
To succumb to all things humans suffered from and to overcome them in resurrection so we could too.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
Hello Blu2 thank you for your comment.

Its okay, just curious hat you mean by this. I guess He couldn't do it because it was mans mistake: and the Word of God came in to correct what man had messed up which was once had in the Garden..
Do you think God was caught off guard when A&E were disobedient? Was God not able to see the consequences of its creation, thus not omniscient?
 

MatthewA

Active Member
I believe that God allowed free choice; and according to the scriptures what had happened went something like this: They were told not to eat from the tree. The Serpent showed up and talked to eve, and lied to her. Eve went along with the lie that Satan had crafted and had spoken. Eve then went onward - on her own and made her own decision to take from the tree and did eat. In which she had went and handed to her husband and He did eat.

After they came to the knowledge of good and evil, they realized they were naked, : Now Eve could have went to the LORD and asked about the Serpent yet she did not make that decision. Adam could have told his wife no, and went and asked the LORD about what to do, but He did not.

When the LORD came and asked them what they were doing He asked them how they knew they were naked; and asked about eating from the tree:

Adam response was LORD the woman you made and gave me the fruit and I did eat -> Point blame at her.

The women did the same thing about the Serpent the women blamed the serpent.

God told the serpent that he would eat the dust of the ground the rest of his days - until his defeat ~ God told the woman that she would bear children as a result of not listening to God, and God told adam that He would end up taking care of the lands.

This is the summary of the account : I do not believe God was surprised: Adam and Eve had the choice to ask God questions, and ask God to help understand whatever it was even procreation, God could have explained that to them and it might not have been painful,: speculation.

Idk if this helps understand or not but this is the story and how I understand it: F1Fan ~ I could be wrong about somethings and not everything might not be 100% So do not believe me but go check it out the account for yourself (Genesis 2 - 3).

Also when it comes to God tempting : I do not believe God tempts anyone : Everyone is tempted by their own enticements, and their own thoughts (lusts - desire) according to : James 1:13-15

(Jesus Christ corrected what Adam and Eve were incapable of doing ~ Jesus Christ done so as the son of God.) According to the John 1:1 and John 1:14 : The Word was made flesh and named Jesus ~ and Emmanuel and taught many things, and reconciled the world by paying for all of sin ~ What good news. Though there is much more than just these things: There are promises from God of eternal life, resurrection, prayer life with God, relationship, justification by and through faith, on the Lord Jesus Christ, we are given the holy spirit/spirit of Christ from God through the Lord Jesus Christ that by Christ believers produce fruits of love by the spirit (Galatians 5, 1 Corinthians 13).

Thank you for the Question: Also F1Fan : I think F1 Cars are pretty cool : watched a couple F1 races with my brother on netflix a lot of interesting business, and decisions, and families.
 
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KerimF

Active Member
I'm referring to his determination to die, and his refusal to avoid death, and his success in getting himself crucified. That's why I ask, for what?

It seems you wrote me this before reading the rest of my post. It is okay, I forgive your laziness ;)


There are no prophecies appropriate for Jesus in the Tanakh; and Jesus has none of the qualifications of a Jewish messiah.

You may be right. The Apostles might not be Jews but they certainly had other sources that let them see in Jesus the one they were waiting for. For instance, even after 2000 years and by hearing his sayings only (I am interested in knowledge not in magic and miracles) I discovered he is indeed my perfect teacher (not necessarily yours) whom I was looking for.

The NT evidence for the resurrection is of abysmal quality, whereas a miracle requires evidence of extraordinary quality. That is, the resurrection is unhistorical, there being no credible reason to think otherwise.

Did I say this miracle had to happen for you or me?
I clearly said it happened just for his Apostles and first Disciples whose mission was to help me (I, Kerim, in the least) hear Jesus sayings while almost the entire world was trying to silence them by force. Otherwise, I couldn't discover that my nature that looks weird to almost all who knew me (my entire family included) is known already by someone else known as Jesus (on the Gospel, real or myth).

Why was his death necessary? If God is omnipotent, God can get any effect [he] wishes without bloodshed. And sacrificing [his] own son to [him]self is an entirely barbaric notion, no?

Are you talking to me?! Did you hear me saying anything you mentioned here, directly or indirectly, about bloodshed and God sacrificing... what?! his son?!
Please tell me, should desert be a breeding thing and the father of someone saying "I am son of desert"?!
Please tell me, do you understand really that evil can be the father of any person known as 'son of evil' or perhaps 'son of sin'?!

Sorry I thought you know already that seeing on the screen the Lion of the Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer roaring, the movie that follows doesn't have to be like any movie one might have seen it already
Yes I mention the word 'Jesus' but if you hear me someday saying anything that a Christian says the same, please notify me and let me hear of him.... Thank you in advance.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
WHY was it necessary for Jesus to die?
...
WHAT did Jesus’ death actually achieve?
...
why would God suddenly need an intermediary in the first century CE?
...

I think Bible gives 3 reasons. First is, it was predicted that it will happen, therefore it kind of had to happen.

Second reason is this:

For to this end Christ died, rose, and lived again, that he might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
Romans 14:9

And third reason is:

Most assuredly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains by itself alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit.
John 12:24

Before Jesus died and Jesus when Jesus was dead, his disciples were fearful. When Jesus was risen, his disciples got the courage to continue in spite of any torture. So, I think one of the reasons for death to be allowed was to get the chance to rise from the death and make disciples fearless.

And about the intermediate. God has had many of them, Moses and all the prophets.
 
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