Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

[Windwalker]

So you've decided God is matter. Why have you done this? What is supernatural about the material of nature?

I notice you list yourself as Buddhist. Are you unfamiliar with this statement from the Heart Sutra? "Form is emptiness; emptiness is form; form is not other than emptiness; emptiness is not other than form."

I think that answers what he was saying, and it aligns with Christian thought well, at is more mystical insights, as opposed to a gross level materialistic and dualistic perception. If you can understand that Mystery, then you can understand the Trinity, not in dualistic terms, but in nondual terms. The Trinity, is a panentheistic expression, which is paradoxical, just like that quote from the Heart Sutra.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The bible gives the details of Jesus life, his teachings and who he claimed to be . Muhammad comes along 600 teats after the fact , as one witness to a visitation in a cave by an angel, conveniently no eyewitnesses to this event ,and we have a different account of Jesus from the biblical one . A Jesus who didn't die on a cross ( which even most scholars who don't believe the bible conclude Jesus did die on a cross ) And was just a prophet 2nd to Muhammed . How convenient for muhammed .

The Bible was not written by eyewitnesses. He is no more of an eyewitness than Muhammad was.

And yes, Jesus probably did die on the cross. But that is the end of the story. The rest the gospels appear to have gotten very wrong.

 

[John1.12]

Really? I am unaware of any eyewitness records. The last time I checked those are totally lacking.

No, you don't believe them . I do .This is how it works . I know some people who deny the moon landing and think the earth is flat ,they make the choice .

 

[John1.12]

Right, and if you knew the history of the time you would know why that was false.

I trust the records of those that were there ,rather than what people claim happened that were not there . Its the same when we learn about other ancient historical figures . Guess what , its written documents, not face book , photos and cctv .

 

[John1.12]

The Bible was not written by eyewitnesses. He is no more of an eyewitness than Muhammad was.

And yes, Jesus probably did die on the cross. But that is the end of the story. The rest the gospels appear to have gotten very wrong.

There were no eyewitness to Muhammad s visitation of an ' angel ' . The singular event for Islam. His own word is all .

 

[John1.12]

The Bible was not written by eyewitnesses. He is no more of an eyewitness than Muhammad was.

And yes, Jesus probably did die on the cross. But that is the end of the story. The rest the gospels appear to have gotten very wrong.

It takes more to believe the alternate theories ( swoon theory, hallucination hypothesis, stolen body theory ect ) the 'corrupt monk who fiddled with the text theory ' , The ' telephone game ' theory ect ect , it takes more to believe this than the actual claim.

 

[Muffled]

Notice I didn't say, "I refuse to" The point is I cannot believe in it.

I watched a debate on the resurrection this morning. At some point, Matt Dillahunty came out and asked "Do you have anything outside the Bible to support the resurrection." Jonathan McLatchie answered. "NO."

That's it in a nutshell. All apologists--Craig, Licona, Horn, Woods, et al use nothing but the Bible to lay out their "evidence" Jesus rose. Claim: the apostles saw something that convinced them. Fact: There is no secular evidence anywhere outside the Bible that mentions the apostles. Claim: the empty tomb. Fact we have no empty tomb. Claim: the apostles were willing to die for their belief. Fact: we have nothing inside and outside the Bible that mentions what most of the apostles subsequently did or how they died. Claim: There were eyewitnesses. Fact: Nobody outside the Bible recorded a single thing about seeing Jesus after he was crucified.

Outrageous claim:

The historical evidence shows that: the grave was empty; the grave clothes were neatly left behind; the stone enclosing the tomb was rolled away; the body of Jesus was never found.

10 Concise Pieces of Evidence for the Resurrection - The Gospel Coalition | Canada

WHAT historical evidence????????

I mean in the link above it gets much MUCH worse than that.

Fact: take away the Bible and any "proof" for Jesus' resurrection collapses.

I believe it is a refusal to believe what God is telling you.

 

[Muffled]

I'm more confused at no. 2:

Pagan and Jewish writers report that Christians believed Jesus rose from the dead.
​

How is that proof..?

So Abraham and Moses never existed because there is no proof outside the Bible. I believe if you don't believe what God says you simply do not believe in God.

 

[Muffled]

The Quran agrees with you @SeekingAllTruth Even though the translations are all over the field, they agree on that point.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

I believe that is false. The Quran does not contradict the resurrection.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I believe it is a refusal to believe what God is telling you.

This is what YOU believe. My belief is God hasn't spoken to you or me or anyone since the dawn of time.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Why are the Gospels inadmissible for the case in favour of the resurrection?

Because the gospels were written up to a century after the fact by Greek scholars who likely weren't even born or at least in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified. There were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection who wrote anything detailing what they saw. It's all hearsay from 10th hand-50th-hand stories floating around the Mediterranean.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

I believe that is false. The Quran does not contradict the resurrection.

You're wrong.

 

[Windwalker]

I believe that is false. The Quran does not contradict the resurrection.

??? The Quran teaches that Jesus did not die, but another was made to look like him, and they only thought they crucified him (bad luck for that other guy... I think his name was Brian, or something like that). And that Jesus will not die until the day of resurrection, that he was taken alive up into heaven. To me, that's a major contradiction with the Christian view of Jesus's death and resurrection.

Islamic views on Jesus' death - Wikipedia.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No, you don't believe them . I do .This is how it works . I know some people who deny the moon landing and think the earth is flat ,they make the choice .

No, you claimed that there were eyewitness accounts. The Gospels are not eyewitness accounts. Nor is the work of Paul.

Where are these accounts?

 

[Subduction Zone]

It takes more to believe the alternate theories ( swoon theory, hallucination hypothesis, stolen body theory ect ) the 'corrupt monk who fiddled with the text theory ' , The ' telephone game ' theory ect ect , it takes more to believe this than the actual claim.

You forgot the most obvious "theory". Or rather theories. There was no tomb.. The empty tomb is a made up story.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Nope.Projection. Making false claims about others is breaking the Ninth Commandment.

Can you reason rationally?

 

[Subduction Zone]

There were no eyewitness to Muhammad s visitation of an ' angel ' . The singular event for Islam. His own word is all .

And there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection it appears.

 

[John1.12]

No, you claimed that there were eyewitness accounts. The Gospels are not eyewitness accounts. Nor is the work of Paul.

Where are these accounts?

What's your proof that the people that wrote the Gospels were not eyewitnesses? Were the writers bored and decided to write a made up story ?

 

[Subduction Zone]

What's your proof that the people that wrote the Gospels were not eyewitnesses? Were the writers bored and decided to write a made up story ?

LOL!! That is a terrible fail on your part. Biblical scholars have studied and dated the Gospels. There is no indication at all that they are eyewitness accounts. You claimed that there were eyewitness accounts. That puts the burden of proof upon you.

None of the Gospels even claim to be eyewitness accounts. How did you ever conclude that they were?

You have bought into the lies of your church.

 

[John1.12]

And there were no eyewitnesses to the resurrection it appears.

' it appears ' ? Not if you accept what was written as it was written .