Jesus' Four Failed Prophecies About Him Returning In The Lifetimes Of His Apostles

[Trailblazer]

I tried. A long while back. I tried again. Still no dice. If he drops the false narrative I will still be polite. I simply refuse to do the bidding of someone that lies about me.

He is a she as my friend Duane (Truthseeker9) told me about a week ago when I was calling her a he.

Yes, I know you tried... and I don't believe the false narratives or the lies, because I know you and how you are with other people. That can be very telling.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No falsehoods, no running away. If you can, please back up your statements, otherwise you may be seen as running away.


Sorry SZ, I will not allow anyone to accuse me of something I have not done, even if it appears to you to be 'impolite'.

But you did run away. You just did it today and I explained how you did so. You did not have to acknowledge your wrong doing. You only had to be polite and not make false accusations. But refusing to do so you ran away from a reasonable offer.

 

[Trailblazer]

Exactly. Christian doctrine.

Baha'is have no doctrines, just what we refer to as "the Writings"... We do not need doctrines that men write by reading scriptures because we have the Original Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha in which everything is spelled out.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That last sentence could have been written by me...

Yes, but it would not have been factual. You started out this discussion with false accusations. Drop the false accusations. You do not have to acknowledge that you made them. Just ask questions and we might get along.

 

[samtonga43]

You were answered. If you can ask politely without any falsehoods I will answer again. But I refuse to go back and dig up your repeated running away. You probably don't even remember the question that you ran away from.

You are correct. I don't remember the question I "ran away from". And you refuse to remind me.

On another note, What do you mean by 'running away'? Maybe we mean different things by this expression. Just a thought.

 

[samtonga43]

I can ask you the question that you ran away from earlier.

And the evidence is there. It is in this thread. The first time that you ran away I immediately pointed it out to you. You kept on running. My unwillingness to dig up evidence that you would likely merely deny does not mean it does not exist. It might be an assumption for you to take me at my word. Since I wrote the posts and know that they are still in this thread it would not be an assumption for me.

I think you should ask yourself why you are so unwilling to provide evidence, SZ. If you know the evidence is here, in this thread, why not stop all this drama and just produce it?

 

[samtonga43]

I don't know who said what or who did what, but I suggest you two forget what was said and done before and start from scratch, that is if you still want to have a discussion.

I can assure you that you are not alone in not knowing what’s going on. It’s a mystery to me too. But thanks for trying to help.

 

[samtonga43]

He is a she as my friend Duane (Truthseeker9) told me about a week ago when I was calling her a he.

Yes, I know you tried... and I don't believe the false narratives or the lies, because I know you and how you are with other people. That can be very telling.

Maybe the difference is that I won’t put up with vague unsubstantiated accusations. I require evidence, and for some reason or other, SZ will not produce the evidence.

It would also be helpful to know what SZ means by “running away” in this context. I honestly have no idea what she/he is talking about. And I have never come across on any forum (and I participate in many) a fellow poster saying:

“I will provide the evidence if you are polite.” It’s crazy!

 

[samtonga43]

Yes, but it would not have been factual. You started out this discussion with false accusations. Drop the false accusations. You do not have to acknowledge that you made them. Just ask questions and we might get along.

Here we go again! WHAT false accusations?

 

[samtonga43]

Baha'is have no doctrines, just what we refer to as "the Writings"... We do not need doctrines that men write by reading scriptures because we have the Original Writings of Baha'u'llah and Abdu'l-Baha in which everything is spelled out.

These 'Original Writings' ARE your doctrines.

 

[samtonga43]

 

[Subduction Zone]

You are correct. I don't remember the question I "ran away from". And you refuse to remind me.

On another note, What do you mean by 'running away'? Maybe we mean different things by this expression. Just a thought.

I gave you reasonable standards. All you had to do was be polite and not make false allegations. Why was that so difficult?

It is an act of running away to not answer uncomfortable questions. I do answer questions, but not if rudely posed. If someone seriously asked you:

"Have you quit beating your wife yet? Please answer yes or no." Would you justify the implied false (hopefully) charge by answering it as asked? Or would you rightfully tell the person to shove off?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here we go again! WHAT false accusations?

Your endless misapplied logical fallacies. They were not properly applied. You also may have been making some assumptions of your own. When certain people are rejected due to their failed arguments that is not a "Genetic Fallacy" That was one that you misapplied. I did not say that you were wrong for using WLC. I said that he does not help your case at all. That is not a genetic fallacy. If I said that you were wrong because you relied on WLC that would be a genetic fallacy. What you did was an appeal to authority fallacy by referring to him, as if he helped your case. He did not.

You could try to use his arguments yourself rather than citing him. You would still be laughed at since his favorite trick is to attempt to define a god into existence which fails on several levels, and then he uses a special pleading fallacy that it has to be the Christian God.

If I reject a poor source because it does not help you that is not a logical fallacy. I tell people that they can use those arguments if they wish but referring to those poor sources does not help them. If I constantly referred to a known liar in debates would that help me or hurt me in those debates? Would that make the claims that I based using that lying source any more believable than if I simply stated them myself. One has to know how to use sources properly when one attempts to support an argument. I have to repeat this: Citing a poor source only tells us about the poor reasoning capabilities of the person that used that source.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think you should ask yourself why you are so unwilling to provide evidence, SZ. If you know the evidence is here, in this thread, why not stop all this drama and just produce it?

Now this is a false claim. I frequently provide evidence. When I am arguing with someone that cannot provide evidence for his claims and then that person rudely demands evidence he or she is not going to get it.

In fact, at least in the sciences, most people do not even understand the nature of evidence. Worse yet creationists tend to be afraid to learn. They will make the false claim about evolution that "there is no evidence". Evidence is provided, they deny it. Actual evidence cannot be denied. It exists. One may disagree with the conclusions drawn from that evidence, but one must then justify it. They seem to know that they cannot justify rejecting the evidence so they take the shortcut of using a false claim. At that point I know it is useless to give them evidence. I offer to discuss what is and what is not evidence with them. Guess what, they inevitably run away. It does not matter if I am polite. It does not matter if I am wrong. One time I had a creationist go over the concept. He saw that might sources were reasonable, that my reasoning was good, but when it was obvious that he would have to admit that there was massive evidence for evolution he disappeared from the discussion.

 

[Trailblazer]

It would also be helpful to know what SZ means by “running away” in this context. I honestly have no idea what she/he is talking about.

Then why not ask "SZ, what do you mean by running away?"

And I have never come across on any forum (and I participate in many) a fellow poster saying:

“I will provide the evidence if you are polite.” It’s crazy!

We all communicate differently and we all have different requirements because we are all different.
I believe we can still exist in harmony with one another despite our differences.

“As difference in degree of capacity exists among human souls, as difference in capability is found, therefore, individualities will differ one from another. But in reality this is a reason for unity and not for discord and enmity. If the flowers of a garden were all of one color, the effect would be monotonous to the eye; but if the colors are variegated, it is most pleasing and wonderful. The difference in adornment of color and capacity of reflection among the flowers gives the garden its beauty and charm. Therefore, although we are of different individualities, different in ideas and of various fragrances, let us strive like flowers of the same divine garden to live together in harmony. Even though each soul has its own individual perfume and color, all are reflecting the same light, all contributing fragrance to the same breeze which blows through the garden, all continuing to grow in complete harmony and accord. Become as waves of one sea, trees of one forest, growing in the utmost love, agreement and unity.”
– Abdu’l-Baha, The Promulgation of Universal Peace

 

[Trailblazer]

These 'Original Writings' ARE your doctrines.

Baha'is have no doctrines because nobody teaches us anything. We teach ourselves by reading the Writings.
Nobody tells us what to believe or what the Writings mean. We figure that out by ourselves.

Doctrine: a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.
what is a dictrine - Google Search

Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina, meaning "teaching, instruction") is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. The etymological Greek analogue is "catechism".[1]

Often the word doctrine specifically suggests a body of religious principles as promulgated by a church. Doctrine may also refer to a principle of law, in the common-law traditions, established through a history of past decisions. Doctrine - Wikipedia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Trinity is a doctrine taught by the Church.

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be one of the central Christian affirmations about God.

Trinity | Definition, Theology, & History | Britannica

 

[samtonga43]

I gave you reasonable standards. All you had to do was be polite and not make false allegations. Why was that so difficult?

It appears that I don’t reach your reasonable standards, and you certainly don’t reach mine.

It is an act of running away to not answer uncomfortable questions.

If not answering questions is an act of "running away", please tell me why YOU run away from so many questions I ask you? I have a long list.

If someone seriously asked you:
"Have you quit beating your wife yet? Please answer yes or no." Would you justify the implied false (hopefully) charge by answering it as asked? Or would you rightfully tell the person to shove off?

No, I would not be rude and tell the person to ‘shove off’. I would explain that this question is an example of a logical fallacy called a false assumption. I would explain why this is so, and hope that she/he would remember the next time they were tempted to ask such a question.

I hope this answer did not offend your delicate sensibilities by being “rudely posted”.

 

[samtonga43]

Now this is a false claim. I frequently provide evidence. When I am arguing with someone that cannot provide evidence for his claims and then that person rudely demands evidence he or she is not going to get it.

I have been asking you (not rudely) to provide evidence for claims you have made about me for some time now. No evidence for these claims is forthcoming.

In fact, at least in the sciences, most people do not even understand the nature of evidence.

What? I have many friends who are scientists, and each one understands the nature of evidence. You must be mixing with some very odd scientists.

Worse yet creationists tend to be afraid to learn. They will make the false claim about evolution that "there is no evidence". Evidence is provided, they deny it. Actual evidence cannot be denied. It exists. One may disagree with the conclusions drawn from that evidence, but one must then justify it. They seem to know that they cannot justify rejecting the evidence so they take the shortcut of using a false claim. At that point I know it is useless to give them evidence. I offer to discuss what is and what is not evidence with them. Guess what, they inevitably run away. It does not matter if I am polite. It does not matter if I am wrong. One time I had a creationist go over the concept. He saw that might sources were reasonable, that my reasoning was good, but when it was obvious that he would have to admit that there was massive evidence for evolution he disappeared from the discussion.

I believe that God created the world. Would you say that I am a creationist?

 

[samtonga43]

Then why not ask "SZ, what do you mean by running away?"

You think I have not done this? No response. It seems I do not ask politely enough.

 

[samtonga43]

Baha'is have no doctrines because nobody teaches us anything. We teach ourselves by reading the Writings.
Nobody tells us what to believe or what the Writings mean. We figure that out by ourselves.

Doctrine: a belief or set of beliefs held and taught by a Church, political party, or other group.
what is a dictrine - Google Search

Doctrine (from Latin: doctrina, meaning "teaching, instruction") is a codification of beliefs or a body of teachings or instructions, taught principles or positions, as the essence of teachings in a given branch of knowledge or in a belief system. The etymological Greek analogue is "catechism".[1]

Often the word doctrine specifically suggests a body of religious principles as promulgated by a church. Doctrine may also refer to a principle of law, in the common-law traditions, established through a history of past decisions. Doctrine - Wikipedia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The Trinity is a doctrine taught by the Church.

Trinity, in Christian doctrine, the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead. The doctrine of the Trinity is considered to be one of the central Christian affirmations about God.

Trinity | Definition, Theology, & History | Britannica

And why is it taught by the Church?
Because it is Scriptural.