Why I CANNOT Believe in The Resurrection

[Subduction Zone]

Bible makes that claim that all Scripture is The Word of God. Sorry you can’t see that.

Creative interpretation that I am betting that you do not understand.

Post it.

 

[Colt]

All your ideas are not in the bible. Your just saying how you feel . Which is ok , but its nothing to do with the bible . I believe the bible.

And I quote the Bible back to you, you cant accept that because the Bible contradicts itself. The reason that the Bible contradicts itself is because it contains human ideas mixed in with divine revelation. Those Human ideas were converted to scripture by the fallible men of the church in order to have a foundation for their authority. So Bible worshipers must then ignore inconsistencies and pretend there a seamless transition from the religion of Judaism to the religion about Jesus which replaced the religion of Jesus.

 

[sojourner]

I don't think God is using unbelieving scientists to inform the world his thoughts and plans .

The most pertinent part of your post are the first three words.

God uses unbelieving people all the time.

 

[sojourner]

Bible makes that claim that all Scripture is The Word of God. Sorry you can’t see that.

The Bible cannot be its own proof.

 

[sojourner]

And I quote the Bible back to you, you cant accept that because the Bible contradicts itself. The reason that the Bible contradicts itself is because it contains human ideas mixed in with divine revelation. Those Human ideas were converted to scripture by the fallible men of the church in order to have a foundation for their authority. So Bible worshipers must then ignore inconsistencies and pretend there a seamless transition from the religion of Judaism to the religion about Jesus which replaced the religion of Jesus.

“Bible worshipers?” Who worships the Bible? And who says we should do that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

The Bible cannot be its own proof.

It is very useful for confirmation bias. But then Muslims find that the Quran is great for that as do the Hindus with the Vedas.

I will admit that there have been "holy men" with a clear and better idea of how people should treat each other and they at times have gotten their message across.

 

[Subduction Zone]

“Bible worshipers?” Who worships the Bible? And who says we should do that?

I think that he is referring to literalists.

 

[Windwalker]

I don't think God is using unbelieving scientists to inform the world his thoughts and plans .

What on earth do you mean by "unbelieving scientists". You imagine all scientists are atheists? Just to inform you, that is not true.

Furthermore, it's not the role of scientists to teach spiritual truths. Their role, is to help us understand the natural world. What we do with that after the fact, is a matter of faith. Some choose to reject what science shows us, because it conflicts with their beliefs. Rather than examining their faith and beliefs, the choose to ignore science.

And to me, that is not true faith at all. It's fear, and a marriage to one's ideas, rather than a commitment to Truth. Others, like myself, accept the sciences and modify what I may believe about God to take into account sound, and credible science. Can you say the same thing? If not, why not?

 

[Colt]

God chose Israel . Its blatantly clear in the bible. You clearly do not believe the bible. I've no idea where your getting your philosophy from?

The atonement doctrine implies that Jesus was just waiting around getting fattened up to be a blemish free human sacrifice to finally make a way for God to forgive?

When the Israelites had finally rejected the Gospel of Christ and sought to stop him by having him killed, Jesus gave them a severe tongue lashing, a verbal beat down.


“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our ancestors, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Go ahead, then, and complete what your ancestors started!

33 “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34 Therefore I am sending you prophets and sages and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.

37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing. 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

Killing Jesus wasn't the Gospel!

Jesus turning to them said, “Daughters of Jerusalem, do not weep for me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never gave suck!’ Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us’; and to the hills, ‘Cover us’. For if they do this when the wood is green, what will happen when it is dry?”

Not supposed to reject Jesus's message and kill him!

Footnotes

 

[Colt]

“Bible worshipers?” Who worships the Bible? And who says we should do that?

People who say that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. They have a relationship with the Bible instead of God.

 

[Colt]

Secret, the reason that the Israelites are so heavily favored in their vastly exaggerated Old Testament history is because they wrote it!

 

[ElishaElijah]

The Bible cannot be its own proof.

Talk to God about that

 

[sojourner]

People who say that the Bible is the infallible Word of God. They have a relationship with the Bible instead of God.

Ok. Makes sense now. Thanks.

 

[sojourner]

Talk to God about that

already done. God speaks through reason. It’s unreasonable to think that any document can be its own authority.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I don't think God is using unbelieving scientists to inform the world his thoughts and plans .

Hmmm, hard to say. If he exists he used Christian scientists to refute the Flood.

 

[F1fan]

You’re mistaken because we are living in the age of the ministry of the Holy Spirit now.

OK, what is that, and prove it's a real thing that happens outside of your imagination. I won't take your work for it.

God is speaking and active this very hour.

OK, prove this God exists outside of your imagination and verify it is doing what you are claiming here. I'm not convinced you are correct.

I am confident that my views are in line with God’s.

OK, what is your test in reality. Every believer is confident in their beliefs, yet there's so much disagreement. This suggests believers are overconfident.

Some things are still hidden and I don’t know everything but yeah I do hear from God. It’s not up to each individual to come up with an interpretation, the first qualification though is to have the Holy Spirit and be born again.

You're correct that lazy believers just adopt the interpretation they hear from others. I'd think if a God really existed it would be active correcting people. This doesn't happen, so the God dews';t exist, or just doesn't care that so many are off the mark.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Are you actually insisting I provide non-biblical evidence for a non-biblical assertion? It says NOWHERE in the Bible that the apostles all died or would die for Christian faith.

Historian Michael Licona captures the key point in his book The Resurrection of Jesus: A New Historiographical Approach: “After Jesus’ death, the disciples endured persecution, and a number of them experienced martyrdom.

How does Licona know all this?

Did the Apostles Really Die as Martyrs for their Faith?

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

Historian Michael Licona captures the key point in his book The Resurrection of Jesus: A New Historiographical Approach: “After Jesus’ death, the disciples endured persecution, and a number of them experienced martyrdom.

How does Licona know all this?

Did the Apostles Really Die as Martyrs for their Faith?

Here's the most commonsense answer I have found based on what we don't have:

Since there are no contemporary historical records to show that Jesus even existed, certainly not as described in the Bible, there’s nothing whatsoever to suggest that the person on whom Paul later based his figurehead for the new Christian religion, had any apostles, or what might have happened to them.


The majority of biblical historians agree that Paul did base his figurehead character on a real person, however we know absolutely nothing about this person, nothing at all. The general consensus is that he was a perfectly normal Jewish preacher who was too vocal in his preaching against the then very strict orthodoxy, and was crucified for so doing. But this is little more than informed guesswork, there is no evidence whatsoever to substantiate this, or to tell us who this person might have been.


He might have had followers, but we simply do not know! All the references to apostles which are in the four canonical gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are little more than allegory, fictional stories based around Jesus, designed to convey the ethos of Christianity to the naive and superstitious people of the time in a way they could understand and relate to, drawing on their knowledge of the Old Testament and some of the supposed miracles described in it.


But since the gospels weren’t written down for between 40 and 80 years after the supposed death of Jesus, and were all written anonymously, only being given their names at a later date as a way of adding perceived authenticity to their stories, they most certainly aren’t any form of historical record.


So, there’s no actual historical information on the person on whom the biblical character of Jesus is based, and there are no historical records of anyone who might have followed him. Everything subsequent to the start of Christianity, by Paul in the early 50s, is either allegory, pure fiction, or a mixture of the two.


As the question implies, it’s all a myth created by the early Christian church in order to market itself and its more relaxed ethos, to the naive and superstitious people of the 1st and 2nd centuries, against a background of strict Jewish orthodoxy and religious repression.

 

[F1fan]

Nope. I’m a Trinitarian. Jesus wouldn’t have been escaping God. He would have been escaping the religious authorities.

The Trinity is a serious problem for Jesus and the resurrection since he IS part of the sacrifice and the beneficiary of that sacrifice. Jesus needs to be separate and independent for salvation to work. The Trinity is a disputed belief, as you know.

God isn’t “obligated” to do anything. God is life, God is love, God is forgiveness, God is forbearance. You’re spouting “substitutionary atonement,” which I don’t buy into.

Well if a God impregnates a woman to create a child to sacrifice to itself is DOES have an obligation to follow through with the plan. Otherwise God would be flawed and have to change. Plus surely God would know Jesus wouldn't bail out of being executed since god is all-knowing, right? Or can God be fooled? If jesus and God are one in the Trinity the God will know what jesus is thinking, yes? So God cannot avoid the plan it sets.

God became human in order to reconcile humanity to Divinity. That’s the salvific act.

When is this supposed to happen? Some 2000 years and humanity isn't divine yet. Maybe you're mistaken. Or God fouled up somehow.

The sacrifice is relatively unimportant, except as a sign of love: giving up one’s life for one’s fellows.

Gee whiz man I hear Christians go crazy about how much Jesus suffered for them. It's a pretty big deal. They even made a major motion picture about this. Unimportant?

Again: Have. You ever been crucified?

Irrelevant to the topic. But maybe you think I'm Jesus returned.

 

[SeekingAllTruth]

krishna:

Death and ascension
According to the Mahabharata, a fight breaks out at a festival among the Yadavas, who end up killing each other. Mistaking the sleeping Krishna for a deer, a hunter named Jara shoots an arrow that fatally injures him. Krishna forgives Jara and dies, [then ascends].

Hinduism has approximately 1.2 billion adherents worldwide (15-16% of world's population).

Jesus:

According to the Bible Jesus crucified rises and ascends.

Christianity 2.382 billion
islam

Muhammed ascended to paradise on a horse

Islam 1.907 billion

Why are their more non-Christians than Christians if Christianity is the true faith?