Quran give answer to why humans can not find physical being called Allah

[Spirit of Light]

Does this verse in the Quran tell us that we as human beings will not find conclusive evidence of Allah?
Note here that in this discussion/debate I do not ask for critique of Quran or of Allah, only about what a seeker may find of "evidence" or faith when searching for Allah.

Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...

So what is the kind of inspiration we can gain from Allah?
Does this verse tell skeptics that they will not find the "solid" evidence they need to believe? (note again, not critique of Allah)

What is the light that is spoken about when the verse say "we have made the quran a light" ?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Does this verse in the Quran tell us that we as human beings will not find conclusive evidence of Allah?
Note here that in this discussion/debate I do not ask for critique of Quran or of Allah, only about what a seeker may find of "evidence" or faith when searching for Allah.

Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...

So what is the kind of inspiration we can gain from Allah?
Does this verse tell skeptics that they will not find the "solid" evidence they need to believe? (note again, not critique of Allah)

What is the light that is spoken about when the verse say "we have made the quran a light" ?

I wouldn't say skeptics only because to understand something, there needs to be some pull and interest. Without it, the scripture may not be useful if not at all.

The first part reads that it seems allah is the one who pulls a person to interest. I wonder if a skeptic is pulled to allah, was it his choice or the will of allah. Sometimes if we are the ones to choose (convert), we get scripture better. If we feel called but have expreme doubt and reaistence there may be some conflict insofar that believing in allah isn't right for that person...he needs to find what calls to his heart not his intellect.

I think the verse is saying allah will reveal and the interested skeptic would only follow through allahs revelation.

The last part, I think is straightforward. Muslims have the quran to show them allah's revelation through his messenger.

Muslim practice and tradition aren't binding on nonmuslims, why would the messages of the quran be relevant?

 

[Aupmanyav]

What inspiration can one get from things which have no evidence?
Why is it not fitting for Allah to speak directly to a person (when he has all the powers to do so) and why only through a mediator?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I wouldn't say skeptics only because to understand something, there needs to be some pull and interest. Without it, the scripture may not be useful if not at all.

The first part reads that it seems allah is the one who pulls a person to interest. I wonder if a skeptoc is pulled to allah, was it his choice or the will of allah. Sometimes if we are the ones to choose (convert), we get scripture better. If we feel called but have expreme doubt and reaistence there may be some conflict insofar that believing in allah isn't right for that person...he needs to find what calls to his heart not his intellect.

I think the verse is saying allah will reveal and the interested skeptic would only follow through allahs revelation.

The last part, I think is straightforward. Muslims have the quran to show them allah's revelation through his messanger.

Muslim practice and tradition aren't binding on nonmuslims, why would the messages of the quran?

Thank you for your answer @Unveiled Artist
I like your approach to this question.

The teaching in Quran is not binding for nonn muslims no the reason it was asked in the OP about skeptics or non believers is because they are often asking for "proof" of Allah, and this verse seems to say they will not find a physical evidence like they wish for, to be able to believe.

But of course there can be other answers too

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What inspiration can one get from things which have no evidence?
Why is it not fitting for Allah to speak directly to a person (when he has all the powers to do so) and why only through a mediator?

Don't know, but does one need evidence to have insight to what's written?

I believe allah doesn't exist, but how would that prevent me to give insight "about" what's written about him?

Maybe the focus should be less on if god exist to answer god questions and more on curiousity and insight.

How would you see those verses, assuming god doesn't need to exist to give insight about it?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What inspiration can one get from things which have no evidence?
Why is it not fitting for Allah to speak directly to a person (when he has all the powers to do so) and why only through a mediator?

The inspiration in my understanding comes from the teaching, because it is words of Allah, so Allah is not needed in "person" but through the prophets we had that.

I can not speak for Allah, so why it is not fitting is not something i think of. i accept that it isnt

 

[Spirit of Light]

Don't know, but does one need evidence to have insight to what's written?

I believe allah doesn't exist, but how would that prevent me to give insight "about" what's written about him?

Maybe the focus should be less on if god exist to answer god questions and more on curiousity and insight.

How would you see those verses, assuming god doesn't need to exist to give insight about it?

To me it means i can find Allah from within me in the practice of the teaching

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Thank you for your answer @Unveiled Artist
I like your approach to this question.

The teaching in Quran is not binding for nonn muslims no the reason it was asked in the OP about skeptics or non believers is because they are often asking for "proof" of Allah, and this verse seems to say they will not find a physical evidence like they wish for, to be able to believe.

But of course there can be other answers too

I honestly believe some can't accept the logic that spiritual truths can not physically manifested (I think for abrahamics mostly).

But, I think it does, but what can skeptics (or should) do with the information one they know and accept what the quran says?

 

[Spirit of Light]

I honestly believe some can't accept the logic that spiritual truths can not physically manifested (I think for abrahamics mostly).

But, I think it does, but what can skeptics (or should) do with the information one they know and accept what the quran says?

I can not for sure say what a skeptic should do, but i believe if they study the teaching and look for sign in the physical world they will be able to at least have some understanding of why muslims belive as they do.

Again here it is not just one answer, there are many answers to your question

 

[Twilight Hue]

Does this verse in the Quran tell us that we as human beings will not find conclusive evidence of Allah?
Note here that in this discussion/debate I do not ask for critique of Quran or of Allah, only about what a seeker may find of "evidence" or faith when searching for Allah.

Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...

So what is the kind of inspiration we can gain from Allah?
Does this verse tell skeptics that they will not find the "solid" evidence they need to believe? (note again, not critique of Allah)

What is the light that is spoken about when the verse say "we have made the quran a light" ?

OK. Just two questions as it applies to skeptics..

Why is there always a need to hide Allah behind a veil?

Dosent it therefore raise a valid red flag that only through someone 'authorized or permitted' can be a messenger or a proxy speaking on behalf of Allah, might suggest something other than what one is led to believe?

 

[Spirit of Light]

OK. Just two questions as it applies to skeptics..

Why is there always a need to hide Allah behind a veil?

Dosent it therefore raise a valid red flag that only through someone 'authorized or permitted' can be a messenger or a proxy speaking on behalf of Allah, might suggest something other than what one is led to believe?

I can only answer for my own understanding here.
Allah is so high above human beings in what he is, that even if we saw him we would not understand what he is, so to understand his message God give the teaching to one person who then will spread the teaching to other humans (i use the word He because it is more easy, i do not know if God has a gender)

To me it does not raise a red flag, it does make sense.
But i understand it miight not be that easy for others

 

[Unveiled Artist]

To me it means i can find Allah from within me in the practice of the teaching

My question would be that without the quran, how would we know our spiritual experiences come from allah.

A skeptic may experience a spiritual experience and read the quran but if the quran doesn't call to him, what is the nature of the experience specific to the quran that may change his mind?

I noticed people who follow and convert to a belief because of spiritual revelation and experience, usually do to religion(s) they were already introduced to.

Is there characteristics about your experience with the quran that if a skeptic were to experience the same without quran awareness, he would go to allah?

 

[Aupmanyav]

"Even so We revealed to you, (O Prophet), .." Surah 42-53
What proof that Allah chose someone to be a prophet and said what is claimed? No evidence. The person said it. I would not treat it any different from what any other person might say. The person may be telling an absolute lie.

The person is claiming only what he says is right, and is trying to give all the dominion of the world to this imaginary entity and claim the benefits on behalf of that entity without any evidence at all. Mohammad did get 20% of all that the Muslims got by their raids and wars including slaves and women.

"Surely you are directing people to the Right Way, (42:53) the Way of Allah, to Whom belongs the dominion of all that is in the heavens and the earth. Lo, it is to Allah that all things ultimately revert."

Safiyya bint Huyayy Ibn Akhtab and Juwayriyya bint al-Harith were purchased by Mohammad from their captors.
In case of Maria-al-Qibtiyya, Allah ordained: "God has already decreed for you (O believers) on the breaking of your oaths (to do what is not just and right, and the expiation thereof). God is your Guardian, and He is the All-Knowing, the All-Wise." (Qur'an 66.2)

 

[Spirit of Light]

My question would be that without the quran, how would we know our spiritual experiences come from allah.

A skeptic may experience a spiritual experience and read the quran but if the quran doesn't call to him, what is the nature of the experience specific to the quran that may change his mind?

I noticed people who follow and convert to a belief because of spiritual revelation and experience, usually do to religion(s) they were already introduced to.

Is there characteristics about your experience with the quran that if a skeptic were to experience the same without quran awareness, he would go to allah?

I believe that a skeptic can gain a similar eperience without the Quran, then the experience is directly from Allah and if later they look in to the quran they might find the answer to their experience there in text. But in my undertanding, the spiritual teaching is for one, made so someone who do have a experience of Allah would be able to undertand what he or she did experience without being a muslim.
And secondly the spiritual teaching in the Quran is a guide for those who follow it (or a guide for a skeptic to understand deeper what they experience in daily life)

The belief in Allah and the faith inn Allah does not exist as a good foundation without the practice, so the wisdom of what Allah want us to do in my understanding can only arise if a person actually practice seriously. But of course a general belief that Allah exist can come without the quran.

Again this is my understanding, so other muslims may see it or understand it differently

 

[Trailblazer]

Sura 42:51-52
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a Messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise. And thus have We, by Our command, sent inspiration to thee: thou knewest not (before) what was Revelation, and What was Faith; but We have made the (Qur'an) a Light, wherewith We guide such of Our servants as We will...

That is basically what Baha'is believe and Baha'u'llah says similar things in His Writings. One passage I often cite is the following, and I believe He was citing the Qur'an when He wrote: “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.”

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71

In the context of the passage above, If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people it means that God could have made all people believers, but IF God has pleased, implies that God did not want to make all people into believers, verified by the fact that not all men are believers.

According to this passage, God wants everyone to search for Him and determine if He exists by using their own innate intelligence and using their free will to make the decision to believe. God wants those who are sincere and truly search for Him to believe in Him. God wants to distinguish those people from the others who are not sincere, those who are unwilling to put forth the necessary effort.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I can not for sure say what a skeptic should do, but i believe if they study the teaching and look for sign in the physical world they will be able to at least have some understanding of why muslims belive as they do.

People believe for three reasons. One is indoctrination from childhood. The other is the fear that they will be ostracized by society or even killed in some countries. The third reason is that a person may not be able to see the untruth hidden in the words. Apologists try to make it as sweet as possible.

Allah is so high above human beings in what he is, that even if we saw him we would not understand what he is,
To me it does not raise a red flag, it does make sense.

How high? Finally he chose a human to do it, and an uneducated human for that matter. If an uneducated human could understand what Allah was trying to say, why would not other humans also be able to understande his message?

 

[Spirit of Light]

People believe for two reasons. One is indoctrination from childhood. The other is the fear that they will be ostracized by society or even killed in some countries. Apologists try to make it as sweet as possible.

Personally non of those two reason you say is why i believe

 

[Aupmanyav]

Personally non of those two reason you say is why i believe

I have edited and added a third. Perhaps that may be your reason.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Gleanings From the Writings of ..

Don't give us blah-blah from what some one writeth or sayeth or speaketh. Give me evidence, give me a proof of existence of Allah and his choosing any one as his messenger, this time an uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I have edited and added a third. Perhaps that may be your reason.

Actually i do see the untruth in this world (it is the physical world it self that is an illusion, and is thereby the untrue)

my belief started when i was a child, and it started with people around me said a lot of different things about God (at that time the christian God) And when doing som reading in to scripture, i found the God people spoke of to not be as the God in the bible, because people tried to make God accept their own lack of morality, so they change the texts to fit their own way of living, instead of living by the book.
For years i did not understand why they did it. But in later years i realized that at that time I was also doing things wrong, especially when it come to judging others, i was a master in that. and i paid my price because of it.
And as you maybe know, i been through a good part of many religious beliefs, because i did not truly find what i was looking for, but now as a muslim i did find at least a lot more what i was looking for. and i do my best to understand more (not blindly believing )

So my personal belief comes from seeking both in books but also from within.