Do not hide the woman in Islam, they were the first believers.

[ecco]

You must ask the human in Saudi Arabia about it, they have extreme strict rules,

Why would I have to ask anyone? It is clear that many laws in Saudi Arabia exist because they are in keeping with interpretations of the Koran.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Why would I have to ask anyone? It is clear that many laws in Saudi Arabia exist because they are in keeping with interpretations of the Koran.

My answer was based on that i can not answer for Saudi Arabian people, i have not enough knowledge about their tradition and view of the Quran and Hadith.

So it was more to say. I do not know the answer to your question

 

[ecco]

Uh-huh...

But why were women not allowed to drive? The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia follows a particularly strict brand of Islamic law known as 'Wahhabism'. It says that men and women should be kept separate and what women should wear veils to cover themselves.
Beloved equal? Really?

There is no wahabbism and both rules are from Islam; from the Quran and the sunnah.

Wahhabism - Wikipedia.​

Wahhabism (Arabic: الوهابية‎, al-Wahhābiyah) is a religious movement and doctrine attributed to Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab. It has been variously described as "ultraconservative", "orthodox", "austere", "puritan(ical)"; and as an Islamic "reform movement" to restore "pure monotheistic worship" by devotees.​

 

[ecco]

I believe(without direct evidence) that the Quran is more as a guide than a direct commandment of this is the only possible way to live as a good muslim. within Sufism we do study the quran, but we look out in to the world too, how to be as best we can in loving every human being, and with not harming others, this is different than example any sunni or shia muslims would see it.

I'll let you take that up with other Muslims.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'll let you take that up with other Muslims.

Thank you I would be happy to share my thoughts with other muslims (i might be a soft muslim in their eyes)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do agree with the first part of your post. you have a point in that how a person intepretate the scripture will have something to say how he treat woman. A person who strictly read every word and only do as the exact words are written might be a bad person for a woman, i do see that one.

I believe(without direct evidence) that the Quran is more as a guide than a direct commandment of this is the only possible way to live as a good muslim. within Sufism we do study the quran, but we look out in to the world too, how to be as best we can in loving every human being, and with not harming others, this is different than example any sunni or shia muslims would see it.

No offense, but most Sunni and Shia would likely see you as a heretic. How you feel about that, I don't know. Just something to be aware of.

 

[Spirit of Light]

No offense, but most Sunni and Shia would likely see you as a heretic. How you feel about that, I don't know. Just something to be aware of.

That is their view of my practice not much i can do about it

 

[stvdv]

Killing of women and children is strictly forbidden during Jihad.[4]

For the sake of the women and the children, let us hope Jihad will never end

Note: For me the inner meaning of Jihad is "fighting your own inner enemies". So, obviously "during Jihad killing women/chidren is forbidden"

 

[Unveiled Artist]

£

The True Importance of Women in Islam

"Maybe it is not Allah or prophet Muhammad who was wrong toward femals in Islam, maybe it was and still is the men in islam who undermine womans rights? This part was added by Counscious thoughts, just take a look at what this article say about who was the first to follow Islam, No it was not men it was woman."
The rest of the article is not made by conscious thoughts in RF


The first person to embrace Islam was a woman; Khadija (ra).

The greatest scholar of Islam was a woman; Aisha (ra).

The person who loved the Prophet (saw) the most was a woman; Fatima (ra).

The True Importance of Women in Islam | PennyAppeal.org

Despite misconceptions, the status of women in Islam is that of a beloved equal. In the midst of a deeply sexist historical context, the Prophet (saw) preached boldly on the importance of women; celebrating their unique contributions to family and society, condemning the ill-treatment of women and campaigning for their rights.

Many of the negative stereotypes around women in Islam arise not from Islamic guidance but from cultural practices, which not only denigrate the rights and experiences of women, but also stand in direct opposition to the teachings of Allah (swt) and His Prophet (saw).

Far from the stereotype of the voiceless and veiled Muslim woman, Shaykh Ibn Baaz argues, “There is no doubt that Islam came to honour to the woman, guard her, protect her from the wolves of mankind, secure her rights and raise her status.”

With all the confusion between history, culture and religion, it’s important to ask ourselves the question; what do the Qur’an and the Ahadith actually teach us about the status of women in Islam?

I'm not knowledgeable in the topic, but let me ask....

In many cultures, spirituality and culture (such as men/women relations and behavior edict) is not separated from spirituality say the religious teachings of a said scripture, tradition, or mystical or god experience. How women are treated in cultures with dominate religious influence and their laws (like Islam) doesn't separate religion from spirituality.

With that said, what if Muhammad beat his wife as means of woman disobedience?

What if scriptures do mean "scourge" and they do mean it spiritually (culture/spiritual connection)...

How would that change or influence your views if you read something uncomfortable in scripture?

Does it need to have a separate spiritual meaning or something that just is not appropriate for you given different culture norms and era than that of Muhammad and Islam countries?

 

[Vee]

£

With all the confusion between history, culture and religion, it’s important to ask ourselves the question; what do the Qur’an and the Ahadith actually teach us about the status of women in Islam?

I'm not that familiar with the writings of the Qur'an and the Ahadith, but based on the behavior of the men, I would say they don't care much for what those books say or don't say. Most women in Islam are severely oppressed by their fathers, brothers and husbands. Living in a country with a fair amount of Muslims, what I learn from them is that when you are born into a muslim family, you better be lucky enough to be a man.
From being forced to cover their heads against their will, to having their access to education limited, being pressured into early marriages and sometimes even abuse, that's the feedback I've received from the muslim women I've been in touch with.

 

[stvdv]

First, if we consider the historical context when the Quran was written. Wikipedia points out:
Arabs used to bury their female daughters alive in sand. After revelation to Muhammad, burial of female daughters was stopped.[3]

Good point, Allah gave a much needed update; the Arab world sounded like HELL + real life demons in it, how you picture it here

I really hope that these demonic Arabs instantly lost their demonic nature, otherwise I would not be surprised that some demonic influences made their way into the Koran even, or else into the Ahadith.

Usually people take babysteps; evolution goes slow. I don't think Arabs changed overnight. I expect another update was needed after Koran

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm not knowledgeable in the topic, but let me ask....

In many cultures, spirituality and culture (such as men/women relations and behavior edict) is not separated from spirituality say the religious teachings of a said scripture, tradition, or mystical or god experience. How women are treated in cultures with dominate religious influence and their laws (like Islam) doesn't separate religion from spirituality.

With that said, what if Muhammad beat his wife as means of woman disobedience?

What if scriptures do mean "scourge" and they do mean it spiritually (culture/spiritual connection)...

How would that change or influence your views if you read something uncomfortable in scripture?

Does it need to have a separate spiritual meaning or something that just is not appropriate for you given different culture norms and era than that of Muhammad and Islam countries?

There is both uncomfortable and surprising things to be read in the teaching, I am very aware i see this things differently than many other muslims.

I try to have a practically understanding of the teaching (how will i do it in my own life) example i would never lay hand on a woman in anger or frustration, i would not punish a woman because she think for her self. And when we read the teachings, my view could be seen as wrong, that i am to soft in my approach. But i see it as i have to treat every human being as i want them to treat me. And i am 100% i do not want a beating.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm not that familiar with the writings of the Qur'an and the Ahadith, but based on the behavior of the men, I would say they don't care much for what those books say or don't say. Most women in Islam are severely oppressed by their fathers, brothers and husbands. Living in a country with a fair amount of Muslims, what I learn from them is that when you are born into a muslim family, you better be lucky enough to be a man.
From being forced to cover their heads against their will, to having their access to education limited, being pressured into early marriages and sometimes even abuse, that's the feedback I've received from the muslim women I've been in touch with.

Unfortunatly, yes a lot of woman have been and still are treated badly in muslim society all over the world. I do not support or understand that way of treating an other human being. In my understanding, it is more about culture than it is about how a muslim actually should be toward other people. But i can of course hold a wrong view my self too, i am aware of that

 

[Vee]

In my understanding, it is more about culture than it is about how a muslim actually should be toward other people.

Probably, and not just in the Muslim religion, I'm afraid.

 

[Kooky]

Which doesn't relate to Islam at all.

My post was in response to someone who insisted that proper Muslim women were supposed to obey men and cover themselves, so I would argue that it very much relates to Islam - if not in its theology in the strict sense, then at the very least as a lived set of cultural practices.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There is both uncomfortable and surprising things to be read in the teaching, I am very aware i see this things differently than many other muslims.

I try to have a practically understanding of the teaching (how will i do it in my own life) example i would never lay hand on a woman in anger or frustration, i would not punish a woman because she think for her self. And when we read the teachings, my view could be seen as wrong, that i am to soft in my approach. But i see it as i have to treat every human being as i want them to treat me. And i am 100% i do not want a beating.

Do you believe that everything (those passages that are uncomfortable) in the Quran should be practiced as a spiritual discipline since culture/spirituality are not separate or are some acts in the Quran flexible depending on the situation appropriate in any situation given their spiritual value?

In Muslim countries laws/ethics/religion go together. Does that apply given the differences between Muslim countries and yours, or do you follow the same edict in the Quran (or try to) regardless of how uncomfortable the teachings may be?

 

[Kooky]

Nah, women can wear what they please. I prefer not to see people dressing in a wide variety of ways (like street trash with their pants around their knees, hoochies, bums, unkempt, etc.) but you can't control what people wear, so you just get on with your life. This is America.

All governments control what people wear, and are quick to jump to the defense of those who consider exposure "offensive" to some degree or other:

In the United States there are variety of different offenses, such as "indecent exposure", "public lewdness", "public indecency", "disorderly conduct" and so on, which may involve exposure of a specific body part (genitals, buttocks, anus, nipples on women), or a specific intention or effect (being sexually suggestive, offending or annoying observers). In some cases, a member of the opposite sex must be present.

Clothing laws by country - Wikipedia

 

[Spirit of Light]

Do you believe that everything (those passages that are uncomfortable) in the Quran should be practiced as a spiritual discipline since culture/spirituality are not separate or are some acts in the Quran flexible depending on the situation appropriate in any situation given their spiritual value?

In Muslim countries laws/ethics/religion go together. Does that apply given the differences between Muslim countries and yours, or do you follow the same edict in the Quran (or try to) regardless of how uncomfortable the teachings may be?

Personally i see it as that even the teaching is from Allah, it is not meant to be saying men in islam should be harming others, so I do take the teaching more in a practical way to be meant that i must contain my own emotions in every situation, so i do not harm others. I do not see those verses as a "go ahead" to harm femals or people from other areas. the way i practice sufi teaching is to be in control of my emotions to the best of my ability. That means if the Quran say i should hit a woman if she speak against my understanding, i should accept that she has her own understanding.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Personally i see it as that even the teaching is from Allah, it is not meant to be saying men in islam should be harming others, so I do take the teaching more in a practical way to be meant that i must contain my own emotions in every situation, so i do not harm others. I do not see those verses as a "go ahead" to harm femals or people from other areas. the way i practice sufi teaching is to be in control of my emotions to the best of my ability. That means if the Quran say i should hit a woman if she speak against my understanding, i should accept that she has her own understanding.

Well, I don't feel you'll get punished for having different cultural values than some other countries. Though, I don't think many people who "beat" their wives do so out of abuse but cultural norms. Kind of like in the US we spank our children. Someone else may consider that as abuse, especially for a child, but many parents do not. In the bible, Abraham had slaves and a couple of wives (can't remember how many) yet where I live that finally (it was legal years ago) illegal.

To tell you honestly, I don't know if there is any religion and religious teachings that required religious to follow each other's laws and cultural/social edict just the ones pertaining to the spiritual meaning of a religion text or tradition and spirituality themselves.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

All governments control what people wear, and are quick to jump to the defense of those who consider exposure "offensive" to some degree or other:


Clothing laws by country - Wikipedia

Yeah, you can't walk around butt naked in most areas of the country or have your bits out (but even that varies by locale!). That's about as far as US clothing laws go.