King Phenomenon
Well-Known Member
Jesus wasn’t crucified. He was too wise to allow that to happen.
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Jesus wasn’t crucified. He was too wise to allow that to happen.
I am of the opinion that the actual culmination of the crucifixion came as a surprise even to Jesus himself. In other words, I am of the opinion that Jesus bought into his own propaganda, and thought all the way up to the end that God would produce a miraculous escape or some miracle that proved to everyone on the scene that they were making a mistake. And as evidence, I would point to Jesus' own words: "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" Why not something like "With this, it is done - the plan come to fruition."? Some finality that draws it all together and gives at least some paltry evidence that those present who were torturing and killing Jesus were only further consecrating God's plan? Very, very strange - and all of the apologetics I have read on this particular issue and quote leave me completely unsatisfied. There are no good excuses, in other words - there are only bad ones. It makes much more sense when put in the context of Jesus never having expected it to come to that moment of no return.Jesus wasn’t crucified. He was too wise to allow that to happen.
I tell you what, you can explain that to Him in the Judgment. See you there.Jesus wasn’t crucified. He was too wise to allow that to happen.
Hmm. John 10:18, ". . . I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. . . .". . . the crucifixion came as a surprise even to Jesus himself.
Jesus wasn’t crucified. He was too wise to allow that to happen.
Didn't mention crucifixion there though, did he? The rites by which this command would be fulfilled? This very well could be just a reference to his being willing to lay down his life for his beliefs and cause, and "taking it up again" was something these people talked about literally all the time due to their believing that they were immortal, and would see their resurrection after death for being good little boys and girls.Hmm. John 10:18, ". . . I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father. . . ."
1. There's no good evidence of any resurrection. There's only hearsay.He was...unfortunately.
But resurrection proves God defeats Death.
FYI, the evidence of the resurrection are the New Testament books. And actual history for the Passover date. The calendar dates can be calculated today, Here is a tool: Calendar Converter1. There's no good evidence of any resurrection. There's only hearsay.
2. If there is a resurrection, how is it evidence of a God, or his motivations?
The New testament books are not evidence, they're stories, folklore, hearsay. All religions and societies have such stories.FYI, the evidence of the resurrection are the New Testament books. And actual history for the Passover date.
Argumentum ad populum?The additional evidence Christians have through faith in Jesus being the Christ is knowing God through their faith in God's Christ.
Books are not evidence. Substance is.FYI, the evidence of the resurrection are the New Testament books. And actual history for the Passover date. The calendar dates can be calculated today, Here is a tool: Calendar Converter
The additional evidence Christians have through faith in Jesus being the Christ is knowing God through their faith in God's Christ.
The New Testament documents are the evidence of Christianity. The New Testament roots is Judaism.The New testament books are not evidence, they're stories, folklore, hearsay. All religions and societies have such stories.
How are they evidence? Any such claims today would be laughed at; thrown out of court, &c.
Argumentum ad populum?
"Faith" -- unsupported belief -- is not evidence. Every society had faith, in all sorts of gods and conflicting beliefs.
What makes the Christian faith in biblical mythology any more likely than old Norse faith in Thor and Valhalla?
Faith is not evidence.
What evidence do you personally have, not from any book or any other written or recorded record?Books are not evidence. Substance is.
Huh?What evidence do you personally have, not from any book or any other written or recorded record?
The existence of Christianity is not in dispute.The New Testament documents are the evidence of Christianity. The New Testament roots is Judaism.
Many stories are rooted in real history. History is common knowledge. Embedding a narrative within a historical framework is commonplace.The Bible (66 books) on the whole have claims to be real history. What real history beyond mere stories can you provide for Thor or Valhalla.
Good point. Nothing outside of mathematics is proven. But some things are well evidenced, observable, tested, reproducible or predictive. Some are pure fantasy with no corroborative evidence, or even discrediting evidence.As for faith. There is no knowledge about anything without some kind of faith. What do you claim to know to be true that you do not believe?
The existence of Christianity is not in dispute.The New Testament documents are the evidence of Christianity. The New Testament roots is Judaism.
Many stories are rooted in real history. History is common knowledge. Embedding a narrative within a historical framework is commonplace.The Bible (66 books) on the whole have claims to be real history. What real history beyond mere stories can you provide for Thor or Valhalla.
Good point. Nothing outside of mathematics is proven. But some things are well evidenced, observable, tested, reproducible or predictive. Some are pure fantasy with no corroborative evidence, or even discrediting evidence.As for faith. There is no knowledge about anything without some kind of faith. What do you claim to know to be true that you do not believe?
Evidence of what?What evidence do you personally have, not from any book or any other written or recorded record?