War, the final battle.

[oldbadger]

I'm amazed. Three totally different concepts, one of them not even written correctly, and yet you somehow lump them all together as if there's some relation. Watermelon, gneiss, and jokes.

That's unfair.
So the boy sat on a rock, eating a watermelon, and telling a joke.

 

[Trailblazer]

In fact it doesn't matter what happens....... it's all part of the plan.
But the plan is kept secret 'cos we wouldn't understand it.

No, God's Plan has never been a secret. It was revealed in the Bible and restated by Baha'u'llah, et al.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it......

What we witness at the present time, during “this gravest crisis in the history of civilization,” recalling such times in which “religions have perished and are born,” is the adolescent stage in the slow and painful evolution of humanity, preparatory to the attainment of the stage of manhood, the stage of maturity, the promise of which is embedded in the teachings, and enshrined in the prophecies, of Bahá’u’lláh. The tumult of this age of transition is characteristic of the impetuosity and irrational instincts of youth, its follies, its prodigality, its pride, its self-assurance, its rebelliousness, and contempt of discipline.”
The Promised Day is Come, pp. 116-117

God’s Purpose

 

[oldbadger]

No, God's Plan has never been a secret. It was revealed in the Bible and restated by Baha'u'llah, et al.

Hi TB!
Yes ... It is secret, let me show you from your quoted piece, thus :-
“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, ........

So I can't see it anyway, and since two full World wars have raged since these promises I'm not going to get too excited about any more bad times.
[/QUOTE]

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So I can't see it anyway, and since two full World wars have raged since these promises I'm not going to get too excited about any more bad times.

It may be the final battle is us finding our Unity.

The war is against our own selves.

Regards Tony

 

[Pete in Panama]

Personally I see material civilization when carried ro access is a pernicious influence.

Time will tell, but I see modern day cities are not viable, decentralised economies need to be established.

Fascinating --your thinking seems so clear yet your conclusions come out well, poorly worded. mho.

Certainly excess materialism is bad, but so is excess carpentry or excess bananas. mho is that we don't have it and what we're working on is that we rise up in spiritual degrees even as we've aspired in material degrees.

As for cities, most of the world's population has been living in cities for a hundred years now out of convenience what w/ so few needed for farming. Nobody knows the future but my thinking now w/ the plummeting costs of transportation & communication the need for cities has disappeared. We'll see.

But Baha'ullah exhorted us to "hold fast to material means", and in another passage he described how while good character w/ cotton was better than selfishness w/ silk, that silk plus good character was "light upon light".

Your take?

 

[Vinayaka]

That's unfair.
So the boy sat on a rock, eating a watermelon, and telling a joke.

So sorry. Maybe his ying was off kilter.

 

[Sandra Jayne]

A great battle is unfolding.

Religious orthodoxy has failed. The rule of Nations has failed. Our material civilization has failed.

The war between what is good and what is not good is approaching a final battle.

It brings verse 30 of the Quran to light

"Remember how the Unbelievers plotted against thee, to keep thee in bonds, or slay thee, or get thee out (of thy home). They plot and plan, and Allah too plans; but the best of planners is Allah."

What is your vision of the future of this world?

Regards Tony

If there is no creator then we will destroy ourselves whether it will be through war, rising of the oceans or another pandemic we will not be able to vaccinate against.

The hypocrisy of the nations is astounding, the permanent members of the United Nations are among the top suppliers of arms to other countries. They sit and discuss how they are going to stop wars when those wars are being fought with arms supplied by them and still people consider them peacemakers!!!
Nine million people are dying of starvation every year, 80 million people have been forcibly removed from their homes in 2019. In the 'developed' world more people are suffering mental health problems and in the US self harm among teenagers have increased 140% in the last decade. People need to think 'outside' their comfort zone because the Earth and great swathes of humanity are not doing well.

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones."

The only failure I can see of our civilisation is that of global warming, and further material progress such as electric cars, renewable energy and a decline in global population is more likely the antidote to global warming than conversion to Baha'i is.

 

[oldbadger]

It may be the final battle is us finding our Unity.

The war is against our own selves.

Regards Tony

Always has been.
Or, between ourselves.
Humans, like some other primates, push against each other.

But we are as alone about that as the rest of nature is. There's no God bothering to do diddely for us Tony. As a Deist I feel quite sure about that.

So we need to sort these problems out by democratic decisions and majority verdicts. There's no other way apart from anarchy, which of course would sort things out but somewhat more Terribly.

 

[oldbadger]

So sorry. Maybe his ying was off kilter.

Well .... Ying-yang has a better ring to it than yin-yan.
I never figured out which the positive side of that was.

 

[Vinayaka]

Well .... Ying-yang has a better ring to it than yin-yan.
I never figured out which the positive side of that was.

Yin-yang. (A guy could do some reading.) As a kid who liked geometry, I was attracted the the symbol.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Fascinating --your thinking seems so clear yet your conclusions come out well, poorly worded. mho.

Certainly excess materialism is bad, but so is excess carpentry or excess bananas. mho is that we don't have it and what we're working on is that we rise up in spiritual degrees even as we've aspired in material degrees.

As for cities, most of the world's population has been living in cities for a hundred years now out of convenience what w/ so few needed for farming. Nobody knows the future but my thinking now w/ the plummeting costs of transportation & communication the need for cities has disappeared. We'll see.

But Baha'ullah exhorted us to "hold fast to material means", and in another passage he described how while good character w/ cotton was better than selfishness w/ silk, that silk plus good character was "light upon light".

Your take?

Great to see you Pete. Yes indeed the world needs a strong economy so all can have work and provide a living. It will be a great day when a fair system of wages, taxes and exchange is built for all humanity.

Personally I have not drawn any strong conclusion as to what the future events will be, as in the end we are told we do not know what we will face.

I am more inclined to think that the status quo will long continue, at the same time I yearn for justice and peace for all people.

The OP was to provoke thought about the challenging part always found in the Word given by God. The Baha'i Writings have given a very graphic vision of what disunity reeks upon humanity, pilgrim notes are very graphic, which shows the warnings contain much for us to consider about how we should be living.

I do not mean this in a bad way to any person, but I have noted the trend to lighten the outlook that the Writings of many faiths do contain, but personally I am optomistic for humanity, even in the reality that I see the future will contain great change, that will be catastrophic in nature.

The apathy and lethargic approach towards a God given elixer has consequences for all humanity and we are part of Humanity. I see we are not exempt from the influence of this age, unless we become and integral part of the required change, which to me gives peace in the purpose.

All the best Pete, off to work soon. Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If there is no creator then we will destroy ourselves whether it will be through war, rising of the oceans or another pandemic we will not be able to vaccinate against.

The hypocrisy of the nations is astounding, the permanent members of the United Nations are among the top suppliers of arms to other countries. They sit and discuss how they are going to stop wars when those wars are being fought with arms supplied by them and still people consider them peacemakers!!!
Nine million people are dying of starvation every year, 80 million people have been forcibly removed from their homes in 2019. In the 'developed' world more people are suffering mental health problems and in the US self harm among teenagers have increased 140% in the last decade. People need to think 'outside' their comfort zone because the Earth and great swathes of humanity are not doing well.

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones."

Great to hear from you Sandra, I have not had the pleasure of a chat with you as yet.

I see your thoughts would be on many people's minds, as no matter how rosey we wish to paint the picture, to try to offer comfort to one's own self, or others, there are still to many injustices, environmental issues and gross imbalance of wealth that we need to face, before we can offer in all honesty that humanity is starting to do well.

How are you coping with the frustrations of the imbalance?

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Always has been.
Or, between ourselves.
Humans, like some other primates, push against each other.

But we are as alone about that as the rest of nature is. There's no God bothering to do diddely for us Tony. As a Deist I feel quite sure about that.

So we need to sort these problems out by democratic decisions and majority verdicts. There's no other way apart from anarchy, which of course would sort things out but somewhat more Terribly.

I see why you have chosen that path of thought OB, religion appears not to have filled that purpose.

To me it was men moving away from what religion taught and then by use of their own view of moral judgement and reasoning try "to sort these problems out by democratic decisions and majority verdicts", that has become the issue we face. Moral guidance is needed, which comes from an elevated source, not from our animal instincts.

It would be different if the democratic process was inclusive of the virtues asked of us by God and if one does not beleive in God, asked of our higher self. To me, I see It is obvious that the world's current democratic nations have failed to offer the higher ground. There are also many Nations still built on complete animal domination.

I see the status quo will continue until we take the elixer of a higher moral ground, which gives every human the opportunity to be free to practice life based on high moral standards.

All the best OB, to you and yours.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

So I can't see it anyway, and since two full World wars have raged since these promises I'm not going to get too excited about any more bad times.

We won't see the Kingdom of God on earth for a long time, not in our lifetimes, but some of us have faith that it will come to pass. As for worrying about any more bad times, I do not worry about the future, I just life one day at a time, and I see many positive changes taking place.

 

[oldbadger]

Yin-yang. (A guy could do some reading.) As a kid who liked geometry, I was attracted the the symbol.

Now you've gone and taught me something........

Yin-yang.

 

[oldbadger]

I Moral guidance is needed, ...........................................

All the best OB, to you and yours.

Regards Tony

Tony, what is Moral Guidance ??

 

[oldbadger]

We won't see the Kingdom of God on earth for a long time, not in our lifetimes, but some of us have faith that it will come to pass. As for worrying about any more bad times, I do not worry about the future, I just life one day at a time, and I see many positive changes taking place.

That's me....... I live right now, in the minute.
And I drag the best out of each one as it comes past.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's me....... I live right now, in the minute.

Go for it!
We only have one life on this earth so that is the only way to live.
Why worry about the future when it is not here yet? If I worried about the future I'd be so anxious and depressed that I would not be able to function at all.

 

[danieldemol]

If there is no creator then we will destroy ourselves whether it will be through war, rising of the oceans or another pandemic we will not be able to vaccinate against.

Considering 99.9 percent of species that were ever allegedly created are now extinct, if this so called creator of the physical realm was indifferent to them what are the chances its indifferent to us?

The hypocrisy of the nations is astounding, the permanent members of the United Nations are among the top suppliers of arms to other countries. They sit and discuss how they are going to stop wars when those wars are being fought with arms supplied by them and still people consider them peacemakers!!!
Nine million people are dying of starvation every year, 80 million people have been forcibly removed from their homes in 2019.

Although there is no doubt hypocrisy there, the trouble with war is that it can clap with one hand. In other words if someone is hell bent on destruction they can still destroy without any opposing faction to keep them in check. So these wars will continue to be fought until the underlying hypocrisy of the aggressors is exposed and their own people rise up to overthrow them.

In the 'developed' world more people are suffering mental health problems and in the US self harm among teenagers have increased 140% in the last decade.

I wouldn't equate the US with its underdeveloped health system with the rest of the developed world. Also cite your sources please.

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones."

World war 1 and 2 has already passed and no supernatural intervention that I'm aware of shortened it. It has only been the exertions of human peacemakers combined with aggressors being defeated that has allowed improvement in the arena of human peace.

 

[CG Didymus]

CG, you are still saying it is God that is making our choices.

I did? Let's look at what Fundie Christian tell us. They say that everything was created perfect but then Adam sinned and God was forced to curse him, the serpent and the whole Earth. God didn't make Adam choose to do the wrong thing. In fact God told him not to eat the from the tree with the forbidden fruit. But... since God knows all, is what they tell me, God knew that Adam would sin. So why did God make Adam that dumb, that unspiritually connected to God, to where he'd do the right thing? And God put the temptation, the tree with the fruit, right in front of his face. Then God let a serpent, whom God created and knew very well that this cunning creature would be able to convince Eve to take a bite of the fruit and then get Adam to take a bite also. Then God complains and says, "Why did you do such a thing?"

Now what choice do we have? Baha'u'llah claimed to be the Promised One of every religion. Yet, lots of people in the different religions don't believe him. Baha'u'llah sent letters to the world's leaders. They rejected him. And God didn't know this was going to happen? God let all his other messages get corrupted and misunderstood and now blames people for not recognizing his new messenger? So God now says that he's going to let us all go through a bunch of horrible things because our great, great, and maybe one more great, grandparents and the world leaders didn't listen to Baha'u'llah. But God is not to blame?

He sent messengers, and if they didn't say ambiguous things, then the people that wrote down what the messengers said certainly did, so it is our fault when we are taught that those writings are Sacred, and in some cases actually called the "Word of God"? And in some cases are believed to be the inerrant, infallible Truth? And now, Baha'is tell us that those writings aren't totally accurate? And on top of that, our spiritual leaders have added in man made traditions and have developed beliefs and doctrines that are based on misinterpretations of those "Holy" Scriptures? And now, finally, he had one of his messengers actually write the message down himself, so it wouldn't be all screwed up? Yeah, I guess you're right. We deserve what we get. But...

We keep the balance and the balance is maintained, the world would treat us kindly.

Who gave people the capacity and knowledge to take natural things out of the Earth and make stuff out of it? Stuff that ends up putting things out of balance? But that's okay, now we have the Baha'i message. We can put things back into balance. No more burning coal and gasoline and all those types of things. No more plastic and other weird synthetics, like nylon and what ever else. But then what? Will God stop sending floods and earthquakes and other natural disasters? If I go swimming in the ocean, I would go surfing but we should do away with fiberglass surfboards, will God make it so sharks won't attack me? Things should be so balanced that they'll only eat fish and seals right? Anyway Tony, I'm sure the world will be better if we all accept the teachings of the Baha'i Faith, but I doubt if it will be without lots and lots of problems.